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Ravenn
12-17-2014, 12:23 AM
Hello all,

A guy is selling a 99 head with msm intake cam on facebook for $550, and i am thinking about getting it for my 95. My questions are these....

1. What all is needed for this head swap? Any input from someone who has done the swap before?

2. Will my car run fine with the OEM ecu and the 99 head with msm cam? Or would i need to have a aftermarket ecu like megasquirt? Really dont want to buy an ECU or mess with tuning and all of that garbage anytime soon, and will probably pass on this opportunity if that is the case.

Thanks for any input!

alexlula
12-17-2014, 08:25 AM
mhhh ill follow up on that post id love to do the same with mine !

etikoner
12-17-2014, 09:36 AM
You need to keep the CAS from your existing engine and put that in the 99 head.
Also, you'll need either a 99+ intake manifold, or a flat top manifold if you wanna rev to 7k all day.
Once you're at that point, you might as well throw in a hondata gasket on the intake side, and also change out your water pump and timing belt and other gaskets you can.

It's doable, but if you're gonna go there might as well knock other stuff off the list.
Also, an ECU would be great, but I've heard of people swapping over to a BP5A cam with stock ecu..

I'm sure more knowledgeable people will chime in here and correct me if I'm wrong.

j slow
12-17-2014, 10:46 AM
As etikoner wrote, you need to retain the CAS and will need an NB intake manifold. Yes, the car will run fine with the stock ECU (if you use a non-USDM intake mani, the car will run a tad lean on open-loop but great on closed-loop) though it will run a lot better with a m'squirt. You will also need to bend the EGR tube a bit in order to fit it in place. If you do decide to go with the '99 head, you may want to consider ARP head studs. Almost forgot, you will need to replace the injector o-rings, not because they're different but because the old ones rarely survive.

Another thing to consider is that having the head off the car is the perfect time to install a coolant re-route and/or replace every coolant hose. Might as well replace all the vacuum hoses while you're at it. :mrgreen:

The Driver
12-17-2014, 11:00 AM
Subscribed.

kung fu jesus
12-17-2014, 12:01 PM
Just some thoughts...

If you use the USDM intake mani, you will need to ziptie the intake runner butterfiles open? With an NA8 bottom end, you are running lower compression than the NB8s, so maybe shave the head to bump the compression a little. The NB head flows pretty good, but I don't know how much HP you can gain without doing other stuff to really take advantage of the opportunity.

RotorNutFD3S
12-17-2014, 01:24 PM
If you use the BP4A intake manifold you can wire in an RPM switch to control the opening and closing of the butterflies, that will produce the most efficient power output.

And +1 to what was posted above, I did this swap on my '95 (albeit with a turbo) and it was well worth it. Especially just to get rid of the hydraulic lifter noise. lol


mhhh ill follow up on that post id love to do the same with mine !

If you have a 92 (as your profile indicates) with a 1.6L engine, you cannot do this modification. The head will not fit on your block as they are physically different.

etikoner
12-17-2014, 02:04 PM
Yeah, I need to get one of those switches from summit!

tonkatsuMX5
12-18-2014, 01:24 AM
Just came across this thread and thought I could share some info. I did the same swap on my 96 about a year ago (BP4W head and BP5A/MSM cam on stock ECU).

From what I can remember:

NB parts:
- intake manifold for the BP4W
- NB Fuel Rail, with some "quick-connect" fittings from Dorman
- NB PCV (or a slightly longer hose to fit the NA PCV )

Re-use from your NA:
- CAS
- valve cover
- throttle body (For my swap, I had to re-locate the throttle cable pin to a different hole on the TB)
- intake crossover tube will fit as well
- Fuel Pressure Regulator
- EGR and EGR Tube (I had to bend the tube a bit to match with the EGR Port of the NB intake manifold)

Other items:
- gaskets for the intake manifold
- head gasket
- SA30R9 fuel hose, as you will probably need to find a suitable route for the new fuel lines.
- wires to extend the injector harness (I remember having to extend the rear Coolant temp sensor wires a bit)
- extra vacuum hose and caps

I also did the following maintenance items during the swap:
- coolant re-route
- WP, TB
- ARP Head studs
- Replace ALL coolant hoses (including the smaller ones that connect to the oil cooler and throttle body)
- 1.6 oil pressure sender (if your 95 doesn't have one)
- serviced/cleaned the injectors, new o-rings, etc..

I also opted to leave the VICS alone, and just run with the butterflies open.

That's all I can recall at the moment, hope this helps!

etikoner
12-18-2014, 11:11 AM
Just came across this thread and thought I could share some info. I did the same swap on my 96 about a year ago (BP4W head and BP5A/MSM cam on stock ECU).

From what I can remember:

NB parts:
- intake manifold for the BP4W
- NB Fuel Rail, with some "quick-connect" fittings from Dorman
- NB PCV (or a slightly longer hose to fit the NA PCV )

Re-use from your NA:
- CAS
- valve cover
- throttle body (For my swap, I had to re-locate the throttle cable pin to a different hole on the TB)
- intake crossover tube will fit as well
- Fuel Pressure Regulator
- EGR and EGR Tube (I had to bend the tube a bit to match with the EGR Port of the NB intake manifold)

Other items:
- gaskets for the intake manifold
- head gasket
- SA30R9 fuel hose, as you will probably need to find a suitable route for the new fuel lines.
- wires to extend the injector harness (I remember having to extend the rear Coolant temp sensor wires a bit)
- extra vacuum hose and caps

I also did the following maintenance items during the swap:
- coolant re-route
- WP, TB
- ARP Head studs
- Replace ALL coolant hoses (including the smaller ones that connect to the oil cooler and throttle body)
- 1.6 oil pressure sender (if your 95 doesn't have one)
- serviced/cleaned the injectors, new o-rings, etc..

I also opted to leave the VICS alone, and just run with the butterflies open.

That's all I can recall at the moment, hope this helps!

Sticky this.

wannafbody
12-20-2014, 11:26 AM
Wouldn't it be easier to just do a full engine swap?

kung fu jesus
12-20-2014, 11:30 AM
I thought the same, but it all depends on the goal.

Rogue
12-20-2014, 02:34 PM
Yea, I have a new 99 head and thought about putting it on the 94 BP in Barbaras car.
I decided not to due to the puny compression ratio of the 94-95.
Ill Just find/build a 2001+ 10.1 bottom for her.

The Driver
12-22-2014, 10:19 AM
Yea, I have a new 99 head and thought about putting it on the 94 BP in Barbaras car.
I decided not to due to the puny compression ratio of the 94-95.
Ill Just find/build a 2001+ 10.1 bottom for her.

I see you are in Dallas. Have you previously done an NB2 transplant on an NA, and would you do it for hire? Let me know via post or PM!

Rogue
12-22-2014, 10:47 AM
PM sent

etikoner
12-22-2014, 11:13 AM
IIRC Steve put a BP4W head on Rooster and after tuning it he saw something around 140 WHP on the stock block.

The Driver
01-05-2015, 10:23 AM
I have set a personal goal to have this done to my NA berfore October 2015.

Phatmiata
01-05-2015, 10:26 AM
IIRC Steve put a BP4W head on Rooster and after tuning it he saw something around 140 WHP on the stock block.

I think there was also some modifications to the intake plenum ?

etikoner
01-05-2015, 12:13 PM
Well maybe, he also had an exhaust on there... But 140 whp with a stock low CR block and BP4W head is not too shabby

The Driver
10-27-2016, 06:25 PM
I have set a personal goal to have this done to my NA berfore October 2015.

And it wasn't done until September 2016!

Phatmiata
10-27-2016, 06:42 PM
Pics or no believe

The Driver
10-27-2016, 06:52 PM
16599 16600

Ye of little faith...

kung fu jesus
10-28-2016, 11:37 AM
Photoshopped.

The Driver
10-28-2016, 06:57 PM
Photoshopped.

If I knew how to photoshop, I'd have the worlds largest collection of Scarlett Johansson naked pics...

http://mazdaroadster.net/showthread.php?4384-quot-The-Driver-quot-owned-Montego-A-love-born-in-reluctance/page2