13b Swap

[minto]

Hey guys, I made a thread stating I was planning on swapping a 13b into my Roadster. I wont be doing this until I iron out ALL the issues I have in mind. Along with the parts aswell.

I currently have a v8 Flyingmiata subframe.
http://www.flyinmiata.com/Store/images/13-80000.jpg

I opted for this because it was local to me, and I didnt want to hack up the OEM frame, Id like to do this correctly if possible. With my JZX100 coming over soon as my daily, I wont be in a rush to finish this swap but I'll be sure to be on here seeking info and advice.

I use the Miata for drifting, so I would like the 13b to be single turbo, but I dont want a massive turbo, I would like to have it around 250/300hp and I also dont want to go SR or any other swap, my mind has been made up with the 13b. :)
Which 13b would you guys advise me to aim for? The FD3S and swap out the twins for a single? Or a FC 13b and bolt on a turbo?

Any advice, tips would be welcome and any other bits and bobs you guys could point me towards would be great. If we could gather a collection of information or even links to browse in this thread, it would be ideal.

Thanks guys.

[I<3flippyheadlights]

There is a guy in my local miata club putting a 13b into his Miata, but he is putting a carbonator in it. I think if you want a turbo, go with the FC turbo II engine. But thats because I see so many FCs blow up!

Anyway look forward to what you are doing, I love me some spinning triangles.

[Vegard]

Read up on the different mounting solutions the different 13b's have.

1st gen have a front cover mount:

http://i1036.photobucket.com/albums/a444/cshaw07/mazda/IMG_1446.jpg

Popularly used in engine swaps. Several of the 13b swapped mx-5's use it.

2nd gen have this:

I couldn't find a good photo, but you get the jist of it here, they are under the engine, and the oil pan therefor differs from other.

http://www.banzai-racing.com/how_to/opb/dl_rebuild9.jpg

3rd gen

I don't feel like searching more today, they're different!

For your power aim:

A stock turbo II engine with a slightly uprated stock turbo should do fine, BNR hybrids are popular: http://bnrsupercars.com/

[Blackbird]

The mounting method Mazda chose for the 13B-REW is definitely the dumbest thing on earth.

Moti

[LOL]

TII 13b at ~13lbs of boost with no cat a 3" exhaust and possibly a SAFC to lean out the mid-range will yield about 250 reliable hp.

[Blackbird]

Reliable, boost, rotary.
Choose any two.

Moti

[minto]

Thankfully.. for me, there is a guy who lives local to me who has been tuning 13b engines for longer than iv been alive. He compete's in local sprint stages with an NA FC and from what others say.. he's the man to see regarding the 13b. What he's not done before, is put one in a miata. :)

[Vegard]

TII 13b at ~13lbs of boost with no cat a 3" exhaust and possibly a SAFC to lean out the mid-range will yield about 250 reliable hp.

Unless on a super budget and you do it yourself, I would never bother with installing the stock ecu with all the wiring etc unless you wish to keep the engine, just that. Stock.

Whatever ecu a good local tuner or you are familiar and within your budget should be a good start.

[jdmfc3s90]

From talking to kyle mohan from mazda trix, popular is using the 1 gen mounting method. But with the sub frame u have i would opt for a turbo II motor and mounting. But depending on your choice of motor, which most rotor heads using parts from all 3 gens, and choices are vast. Theres other questions i have in general about the swap too.

Are you keeping power steering?? Moutning options, custom lines?
Tranny choice and mounting
Diff choices? final drive?

[Caoboy]

Most cases I've seen use the first gen front cover. Do you not need this with the V8 subframe? People have also been mentioning needing some modifications to the trans tunnel near the clutch slave, but a miata tail shaft will mate up to the TII bellhousing and gearbox.

[phrenetiK]

13MSP with a street port and leave it NA ^_^

[minto]

Well Iv taken the plunge and funny story, I was heading south this Tuesday past to test fit a Carbon Fiber roof we have been making and got a message from the guy who sold me the subframe to say he gave it another go.. bought another frame, a NA8 and fitted a 13b and gearbox to it.. but hasnt got the time to keep it going anymore and asked if I was interested before it went to the forums..

I was.. and since I was going that way anyway, we went and had a look.. Its just a bear shell with the engine/box in place. So I bought it this afternoon. The 13b is blown but im not worried, I know of plenty people here who can fix it now and already in talks.

I'll be back when I finally get it in my hands and post up some pictures for you guys to see. As far as I know its an FC turbo engine but its currently NA.

[Dezi]

There is a guy in my local miata club putting a 13b into his Miata...

Here I am. Phatmiata linked me to this forum thread and I'll just give a quick detail of what I have going on currently with my swap. I bought a 1991 13b 6 port n/a motor complete with all the efi and harness which I have stripped down to the block and plan to sell all the electronics and fuel injection system in favor of 48mm Weber IDA carbs and a Mazdatrix intake manifold designed for a Weber carb conversion. Instead of using the RX7 transmission I just swapped the bellhousings and modified my input shaft to be about .375" shorter. Currently I have the hybrid transmission bolted to the motor waiting to bring it to the shop I work at on Saturday where I will be fabricating custom motor mounts that will be welded into the V8 Roadsters mount-less subframe. That tubular subframe is an amazing piece.. it's very sturdy yet lighter than stock and the amount of clearance gained is huge. And it's a couple hundred dollars less than comparable tubular subframes I've seen.

[CeeJaayDM]

brapbrapbrapbrap :)

[minto]

Here I am. Phatmiata linked me to this forum thread and I'll just give a quick detail of what I have going on currently with my swap. I bought a 1991 13b 6 port n/a motor complete with all the efi and harness which I have stripped down to the block and plan to sell all the electronics and fuel injection system in favor of 48mm Weber IDA carbs and a Mazdatrix intake manifold designed for a Weber carb conversion. Instead of using the RX7 transmission I just swapped the bellhousings and modified my input shaft to be about .375" shorter. Currently I have the hybrid transmission bolted to the motor waiting to bring it to the shop I work at on Saturday where I will be fabricating custom motor mounts that will be welded into the V8 Roadsters mount-less subframe. That tubular subframe is an amazing piece.. it's very sturdy yet lighter than stock and the amount of clearance gained is huge. And it's a couple hundred dollars less than comparable tubular subframes I've seen.

Thanks for the info man! :) Thanks for joining up. I still dont have this car yet! Been building up my other mx ready for a drift comp this weekend.

[Dezi]

Just a quick update:
I have the motor and trans mounted in the car and the next step I plan to take is cleaning up the engine bay, removing unnecessary wires and brackets. Here is the link to my build thread on the local Miata forum I joined. http://tampabaymiatas.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=11643 If anyone has any questions feel free to pm/email me.

[Kyle L]

Pics of mounts please?

[recklessabandon]

when you get that motor in there, be prepared for fun.

[Dezi]

Kyle, I'll try getting a picture of the mounts sometime this week. Right now I'm working on putting the transmission and driveshaft back in, then I'll be working on fuel and intake this week. Recklessabandon, I love your car and I've saved every picture I found of your car to help me figure out where to place things. Specifically this picture http://www.myspace.com/na6_build/photos/36467170#mssrc=SitesPhotos_AP_ViewPhoto has helped me a bunch for figuring out how to do the fuel delivery.

[recklessabandon]

thanks dezi. if any of you guys need help with your swaps, just send me a pm.

[Kyle L]

thanks dezi. if any of you guys need help with your swaps, just send me a pm.
Sweet you'll deff be hearing from me! Curious to see everyone's mounting solutions. Also how you ran your header/exhausts.

[Dezi]

I was doing some header/exhaust fitment the other day, first time I actually noticed that the 13b header is on the opposite side as the 1.6l. I fit the large boxy part of the 13b's header after I grinded down the corner on the lowered "fin" of it where it was touching my subframe. It seems to come down in a good spot but there will definitely need to be a custom section made to link the headers to my Miata Borla cat-back system. I'm just going to get car running on open header first before making the custom section in case things need to change. My passenger side mount I made a plate that used the same bolt pattern to go under the oil pan (where that cast aluminum bracket went) and then welded a plate coming off of my tubular subframe, then I used a Chevy S10 suspension bushing (control arm I think) as my rubber shock obsorber between the 2 plates, it's all connected with a bolt and washer. Driver side is the same setup besides it uses and L shaped plate that bolted to the center Iron. Then I have a hybrid transmission using the stock Miata tailshaft and mid gear section, and the RX7 bell housing so the rear is supported by the PPF in the factory position. Honestly I have no idea how my engine mounts will work when the car runs, it was my first time ever making something like that so I'm sure there is a better way to do it. The engine is very stiff though, when I push and pull it barely moves, compared to my Miata engine which moved about 1.5 inches either way.

[gapmiatas]

A rotary swap is on the agenda when my motor goes POP!

Interested in seeing how you handle moving the exhaust to the other side. Especially on a lowered car. This has been the only thing I've really be concerned about.

Had my interest piqued again this morning when I saw this vid of a bridgeported 12A:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cs9U3ABBgtk

[Dezi]

No longer have this project. But you would have to build a custom midpipe from the pass. side 13b header to either switch back over to the driver side and use stock exhaust the rest of the way or just run the pipe straight back tucked close to the body with heat shielding. I don't believe either method would be very "slam" friendly unless you squish down the round tubing into more of an oval shape so that the height does not hang down lower than the frame rails. I'm not sure if an oval would be equal or less as far as flow goes but I imagine it should be near the same.