Timing Belt replacement question.

[WASABI]

So after I removed/degreased/washed/stripped/primed/painted every part, and bolt, I am ready to install my new timing belt. I have looked online for write-ups and some really great videos, however, now that I have everything set, I am second guessing myself, because I don't want to tear it back down if I am off a tooth.

It looks like I have everything ready to go...but, I wanted to run it by you guys first.

THIS IS HOW SHE STANDS
http://www.fagerquist.com/miata/build/tb 10.jpg


Judging from my "before" pictures, it looks the same, but could the mechanic that did the first timing belt, have made a mistake with the cams? (note: was told when I bought the car, the timing belt was done, but the car had been sitting for 4 years, and had a little oil leak from the front crank seal) I figured it was good preventative maintenance.

THIS IS BEFORE! to compare. I know it's at a different angle, but I was looking at the cam positions.
http://www.fagerquist.com/miata/build/tb 9.jpg

When I tore her down, I found out that he did put the woodruff key in backwards!!!

http://www.fagerquist.com/miata/build/tb 5.jpg

Any help would great!

-Jim

[phillyb]

unfortunately, i didn't do mine. the shop did when i got my shit rebuilt...
i haven't read this article in a while - http://www.miata.net/garage/timingbelt.html - but it should go over everything you need to know, including how many teeth there should be not touching the cams.

[adamvanxxx]

As long as you are at TDC everything looks perfectly fine to me.

[urban]

i see you counted 19 teeth between the timing marks..
go through the rotation process again , and if it lines up your good.


btw , i just did this last week , went though the process, nailed it , and it fired right up . most people are more nervous then they need to be , looks like you got it though.

[WASABI]

The more I look at it, I think I am off one tooth on the intake cam (counter clockwise). The top mark is straight up, but the lower cam mark is just shy of the "E" stamped on the backing plate. I did find this series of videos quite helpful.


http://youtu.be/IMT-CbtLqeU

[adamvanxxx]

It's okay to be off just a tiny bit like you are on the intake cam. Odds are you are over analyzing it.

[WASABI]

It's okay...Odds are you are over analyzing it.

Yeah, I think you're right. I just got home and looked at her again, with fresh eyes, and that son of a bitch looks spot on. Fug it, I'm puttin' her back together, and see if I can get out on the road tonight! It's been in the 80's all week up here in New England....THIS WEATHER WASN'T SUPPOSED TO HAPPEN FOR ANOTHER MONTH! Wish me luck.

-Jim

[I<3flippyheadlights]

You can do it!

[bedheadben]

i see you counted 19 teeth between the timing marks..
go through the rotation process again , and if it lines up your good. most people are more nervous then they need to be , looks like you got it though.

This. Crank it over by hand a few times and make sure it's still lined up. If it is, you're probably good.

[moerdogg]

Jim,

Did the same thing with mine, looks like you are fine. I ended up over-thinking it, pulling everything apart, and moving it. Turns out I had it right the first time, the car would not run! I think it sits just a little bit past the mark because of valve spring pressure on the camshaft not being exact, so a teeny bit one way or the other is fine.

[WASABI]

This. Crank it over by hand a few times and make sure it's still lined up. If it is, you're probably good.


Did the same thing with mine...I ended up over-thinking it...I think it sits just a little bit past the mark because of valve spring pressure on the camshaft not being exact

So, this weekend was pretty busy, but I did get a chance to crank it by hand 3 or 4 times, and everything stayed correct. I then figured out why I was having second thoughts about the cam lobs not looking right....I had advanced the timing to 14, so the cams reflected this, when the timing mark was at TDC, the lobs were a smidge off, but came in line at 14º advance. (Yes I know you are supposed to set the timing to factory 10º BEFORE you start a timing belt change.)

http://www.fagerquist.com/miata/build/tb 12.jpg

Waxed the valve cover before I installed her.

[bedheadben]

So, this weekend was pretty busy, but I did get a chance to crank it by hand 3 or 4 times, and everything stayed correct. I then figured out why I was having second thoughts about the cam lobs not looking right....I had advanced the timing to 14, so the cams reflected this, when the timing mark was at TDC, the lobs were a smidge off, but came in line at 14º advance. (Yes I know you are supposed to set the timing to factory 10º BEFORE you start a timing belt change.)

Waxed the valve cover before I installed her.

You advanced the cam timing to 14°? Because if you're talking about ignition timing, which I'm pretty sure you are, that has nothing to do with the timing belt. At least the way I adjusted the ignition timing on my NA was by loosening up the cam angle sensor (CAS) and turning it to get the timing I wanted, then locking it back down. Of course you have to jump the diagnostics box and all that but the only thing that should physically be in a different spot after you adjust ignition timing is the CAS on an NA Miata, certainly not the timing belt, crank, or cams. TDC will be in the same place regardless of the ignition timing, regardless if you even had an ignition. The cams shouldn't line up at 10° or 14° on the crank pulley, they should line up when the crank pulley is positioned to TDC or 0°.

I think you might be one tooth off on the crankshaft with the timing belt.

[WASABI]

Ben, I see what you are saying, and perhaps I mis-spoke. Looking at the cam lobes, might have been an optical illusion? After I mounted my lower timing belt cover, that has the timing marks, I turned her by hand, and the cam gears came into alignment every other rotation.

http://www.fagerquist.com/miata/build/tb 13.jpg

The #1 cylinder (closest to the front) should have the cam lobes pointing out at 90º. When I look at them, the seem ever so slightly higher, like 93º. I think it will be fine. Finger's crossed.

-Jim

[bedheadben]

Ah, yes. Looking at that picture where I can see both the crank and cam pulleys, it looks like you're absolutely fine. Must have just been a minor misunderstanding, but I still don't know where ignition timing came into the picture, regardless of whether or not it's advanced.

[WASABI]

As a Mod...can I take out stupid things I say? :teehee:

[bedheadben]

I believe that would be abuse of the system, unless if too much time hasn't passed yet where a regular member could still edit their post :lol:.

I'm glad it was just a misunderstanding though, your car should fire right up just fine.

[adamvanxxx]

You are still over thinking all of this. You are fine.

At least it is a non interference and you just get to try again. :lol:

[Winlowe]

I agree with the posters that say it looks good so fire it up if you haven't done it yet.

[iRoadster]

So…does it live? Love that VC.

[WASABI]

...it looks good so fire it up if you haven't done it yet.


So…does it live? Love that VC.

I haven't tried her yet, well, because I have had to "freshen" everything up in the engine bay...while I was in there. Damn, my OCD and these side projects!

http://www.fagerquist.com/miata/build/tb 15.jpg

Had to polish the radiator, while it was out.

http://www.fagerquist.com/miata/build/tb 14.jpg

Heat wrap my OBX header. Cleaned, and painted with high-temp paint (1200º). Tonight, wrap.


Oh, and degrease and paint engine block with Por 15.

[moerdogg]

But you're missing all this lovely New England spring weather! Oh wait, that was 2 weeks ago...

[WASABI]

But you're missing all this lovely New England spring weather! Oh wait, that was 2 weeks ago...

Tell me about it, sheeez. Well, I've wrapped my stainless steel header (wetting the wrap makes for a super tight fit),

http://www.fagerquist.com/miata/build/tb 17.jpg

Let that dry for two days, and painted that with a top coat of high temp silicone protectant.

http://www.fagerquist.com/miata/build/tb 19.jpg

http://www.fagerquist.com/miata/build/tb 20.jpg

I also degreased, prepped, and painted my engine block with POR-15. I believe she will go together quickly, and be on the ground tonight! Here's fingers crossed.

-Jim

[bedheadben]

Great work!

[WASABI]

Great work!

Thanks! Well, I finished her up last night, and started her up. SMOKED like hell, which I expected, and I had to start her in the garage, just in case something leaked or went wrong. I ran her for about 20 minutes, letting the fans kick on a couple times, and everything seemed good, 'cept for a water pump pulley that loosened up(should I use anti-seize on those bolts?). No leaks, just noisy lifters from not being run in 5 months. I'll fix the water pump pulley later today, and take her for a test run.

-Jim

[moerdogg]

Yes on Loc-Tite-ing the WP pulley bolts, or so says Keith Tanner in whichever book of his covers TB replacement. The blue stuff, of course.

[bedheadben]

I use loc tite on anything that comes loose by itself. Never had any problems doing that yet.

[WASABI]

Yes on Loc-Tite-ing the WP pulley bolts, or so says Keith Tanner in whichever book of his covers TB replacement. The blue stuff, of course.


I use loc tite on anything that comes loose by itself. Never had any problems doing that yet.

Alright, so I just need to clean the silver anti-seize stuff off the bolts and out of the threads, then do the blue lock-tite. BTW, my blue loc-tite is super watery....is it supposed to be?

-Jim

[kung fu jesus]

yup. shake the bottle.

[bedheadben]

yup. shake the bottle.

Agreed. I always use the blue stuff first, then if it continues to come loose, the red stuff. People say that you can't break it loose without heat but it usually breaks loose pretty easy with a good wrench on there.

[WASABI]

I was able to access the three loose water pulley bolts by only removing half of the cross over tube. As I looked at the threads, I didn't see any anti-seize on the threads......sooooooooo, that must mean, I never bothered to tighten them in the first place. DOH! I bought a fresh tube of blue loc-tite on the way home, and put an ample dab on each bolt. I am now going to wash the car, thus waiting the 20 mins for it to set, and then retry my maiden voyage with the new timing belt.

http://www.fagerquist.com/miata/was-10.jpg

-Jim