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AARP
01-02-2012, 03:34 AM
Post in here your experiences with different types of pads.

To start off, what would be a recommended pad for a daily driver that does monthly canyon runs and occasional track use? I'm torn between Hawk HPS or HP+/Carbotech AX6 or XP8.

NAautoxer
01-02-2012, 11:09 AM
i run hawk HP+ front on my mostly stock engined 1.8. has suspension upgrades. we track the car about 8-15 weekends per year. end up switching out fronts about mid-later in the year for a new set. never experience fade though. run them all the time, street or track. do not get the HPS for front. i have them on the back. if running carbotechs, i've been told xp10 fr, xp8 rear. i'm sticking with my hawks for now.

kung fu jesus
01-02-2012, 11:36 AM
Sean, either of those are excellent choices.

Honestly, I have never felt fading on my Hawks, and I've run the HP+ and the HPS. The Carbotechs are a little more aggressive in my opinion, a *little* easier to modulate when pushed, and harder on the rotors. I put Axxis Ultimates with fresh blanks on Tina's NB and they were a great improvement over the OEM-type pads previously on there. I have run them on my car in the past, too. I felt a little fading on them running very hard on the track and mountain roads in North Carolina, but nothing scary. They were good, but not as communicative. The Carbotechs, in comparison, felt like I threw the car into reverse thrust.

With the selections you have listed, you should expect heavy dusting, like German/euro cars experience. Also, they will be noisy. My car sounds like the garbage truck when I pull up to a stop.

JTninja
01-02-2012, 06:40 PM
Just bought Stoptech pads after hearing a lot of good reviews on other cars, will update with reviews.

stormin'norman
01-02-2012, 11:44 PM
Axxis Ult- Excellent street pad. Would not recommend for much more then beginner hpde parade pedaling.

Cobalt Friction XR3/5- eyeball sucking braking abilities even on 1.6 hardware. Excellent pad life, dust you would expect from a race pad, awesome modulation. Did I mention they look pretty when new?

zoom
01-03-2012, 12:09 AM
Porterfield R4S front and rear - When cold they are pretty much equivalent to stock/OEM pads however; if you drive slightly aggressively and get them warm they grab 1000 times better than stock and slow the car down in a hurry. Never ever fade (in my use), made quite a bit of dust at first but, now there isn't as much, no squealing. I would buy these pads again.

Soledad
01-03-2012, 06:01 PM
I'm stompin' on Hawk HPS pads. I like them but man, do they dust my wheels up quick.

Car and Driver recently did a write-up about which car has the best brakes. Believe it or not, the Miata's factory brakes beat out all the other contenders.

atlnb
01-03-2012, 07:39 PM
Axxis Ult- Excellent street pad.

Truth, love em love em

iRoadster
01-03-2012, 07:42 PM
Another supporter of Axxis ULT's for the street and light hooning.

kung fu jesus
01-03-2012, 08:12 PM
Sean, did you drive my car when I whored it out at that SOCM meet?

Neocataboi
01-03-2012, 08:44 PM
i have HP+ on the front with OEM style in the back. i like them, but the dust is pretty bad, especially with our meshies. i've never got them to fade. i was also looking into other options.

The HP+ is also pretty noisy. but i like the overall feel and modulation i get from them.

AARP
01-03-2012, 09:20 PM
Sean, did you drive my car when I whored it out at that SOCM meet?

No, I somehow managed to miss that gangbang http://clubroadster.net/vb_forum/images/smilies/pinkgiggle.gif

tanakapz
01-03-2012, 11:31 PM
Where do you guys seems to find the Axxis ULTs? I can't find a reliable source D:

NAautoxer
01-04-2012, 06:49 AM
what exactly are you looking for in the pads? what are you trying to do with them? there are a lot of guys here talking about an "aggressive street" pad.. the ultimates. i don't think that's what you want..

revlimiter
01-04-2012, 09:48 AM
Axxis Ultimates

Pros
-No noise! This is huge for any ex-Hawk user.
-Nice cold bite. This is also a big plus over HP+.
-GREAT initial bite over their whole temp range.
-Did I mention they're quiet?
-Nice price.
-Can be used on track days. Do not self destruct after a 20 minute session.

Cons
-Dust
-Dust
-Dust
-Dust!!!
-Aren't real track pads.

I'm on my 3rd set of Axxis Dustimates. I like them, but I have to clean my wheels every week. And for me a week involves maybe 100 miles of driving.

AntiochOG
01-04-2012, 10:27 AM
Porterfield R4S front and rear - When cold they are pretty much equivalent to stock/OEM pads however; if you drive slightly aggressively and get them warm they grab 1000 times better than stock and slow the car down in a hurry. Never ever fade (in my use), made quite a bit of dust at first but, now there isn't as much, no squealing. I would buy these pads again.

I've got these too. When they are warmed up they are awesome. However I disagree slightly about their cold performance. I feel like they grab a little less than stock when cold. Totally streetable, but in the future I will probably look for something with a little more bite cold since most of my driving is on the street. I don't think the noise are dust are bad at all.

iRoadster
01-04-2012, 04:17 PM
Where do you guys seems to find the Axxis ULTs? I can't find a reliable source D:

Goodwin Racing.

Rev's post summed up ULT's perfectly.

AARP
01-04-2012, 07:03 PM
Goodwin Racing.

Rev's post summed up ULT's perfectly.

Last time I checked they were out of stock.

stormin'norman
01-05-2012, 11:40 PM
Last time I checked they were out of stock.

I feel like they have changed names or are slowly becoming extinct. I've got like 40% left on my last set will miss them for winter street duty if I can't find more.

iRoadster
01-05-2012, 11:44 PM
Axxis is also known as PBR, maybe that's part of it.

stormin'norman
01-05-2012, 11:48 PM
Axxis is also known as PBR, maybe that's part of it.

When I got them through Eddie at AR the fronts and rears came in two different styles of boxes. One was the typical grey Axxis Ult and one was a Black PBR. Both visually looked like the same product and performed fine.

iRoadster
01-05-2012, 11:54 PM
I've always heard they were the exact same product, just different packaging.
The first set I got a couple years ago came in the gray Axxis boxes, and the ones I put on a couple months ago came in the black PBR packaging.

pmhaddad
01-06-2012, 12:39 PM
Post in here your experiences with different types of pads.

To start off, what would be a recommended pad for a daily driver that does monthly canyon runs and occasional track use? I'm torn between Hawk HPS or HP+/Carbotech AX6 or XP8.

The XP8 isn't a street pad. AX6 is where I would start, I just put HP+ on my car that sees DD/Track use. HPS won't last more than a couple laps on the track. Really the best thing to do is swap pads at the track if you can. I expect this brand new set of HP+ F/R to last 2 track days at most with DD and some Autox in between.

AARP
01-06-2012, 04:22 PM
How's the bedding in process for Carbotechs? Where would one go besides the track to bed them in?

pmhaddad
01-06-2012, 08:46 PM
How's the bedding in process for Carbotechs? Where would one go besides the track to bed them in?

To properly bed in pads you have to do it at the track. Especially the XP pads. I got away with bedding my HP+'s on the street, but I don't like doing it that way. Plus as soon as they get hot you are sitting on the side of the road til they cool down. If you have a local road with low traffic you could try, but those XP pads HAVE to be bedded in at race speeds to function properly. You could probably get away with bedding the AX6 on the street, as it is pretty comparable to the HP+.

Or you could save yourself a lot of hassle and money and just get HP+'s, great dual purpose pad - IMO.

atlnb
01-07-2012, 08:17 PM
Or Axxis if it's dual purpose on a small track. It's a pretty versatile pad

stormin'norman
01-08-2012, 12:37 AM
Cobalt Friction. Spendy but excellent products. Technically do not need to be bedded in either. Put your hawks on the shelf and step up to real pads. :)

http://i1133.photobucket.com/albums/m582/na6c93roadster/DSC_0154.jpg

Xr3 fronts 16, yes sixteen, track days later (stock power). Exposed to the rivets but still useable. Could squeeze another day or two out of them.
http://i1133.photobucket.com/albums/m582/na6c93roadster/DSC_0415-3.jpg

pmhaddad
01-08-2012, 09:24 AM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but those don't seem like a dual purpose pad either. Comparable to the XP8, even though it has a cold operating temp, how is the bite when cold? Do you street them? I was seriously considering these pads as they were a bit cheaper than the XP8s, but I still thought they would probably be too aggressive for daily use. Plus I got my HP+ F/R for about the same price as a set of XR3 fronts... which is a huge savings. Might not last me as long, but its still like half the price.

Bummer
01-08-2012, 10:05 AM
It's pretty hard to recommend pads for "occasional track use." If you are lapping all out for 30 minutes, or making passes in the braking zone, you need a lot higher temp pad than 90% of the people I've run into at lapping days and "street schools." I would say more than 50% of people at a typical track day can get away with OEM quite easily. More than 75% can get away with a mild upgrade like the EBC Green, (decent wear and easy dust clean-up). The remainder can benefit from a truly aggressive "street" pad, of which a few good ones were discussed, already.

The truth is (or should be) only the most aggressive drivers (top 25%?) will contribute to this thread, because they have actually experienced braking problems and needed upgraded pads.

So, what is your driving style on the track? Are you the last of the great late brakers? Threshold braking every turn and trail-braking to the edge of reason? Or, do you sort of roll off the throttle, brake to near turn-down, then roll back on throttle? How much power do you have? Are you slowing the car from 160mph on the straights?

I generally recommend EBC Green or Yellow to people until the prove they need something more. If you're like me, and seemingly try to set the lap record with every lap, then there is no dual-purpose pad - You may need a dedicated pad (and rotors) like Hawk DTC 60, or the Cobalt XR3 referrenced above.

f86sabjf
01-08-2012, 10:16 AM
Running Porterfiels R4S on front and rear. The pad makes no noise and at all . Light to med dust and although i might overheat them at an hpde day and they oper temp goes to 1100 so i seriously doubt i'll over heat them on the street. Even with stock rubber lines these pads grab predictably at any level. I am looking at moving to the xp8 next time just to change it up.

A little worried about the xp8's cold temp bite though 250Deg might not be the right pad for me

stormin'norman
01-11-2012, 06:20 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but those don't seem like a dual purpose pad either. Comparable to the XP8, even though it has a cold operating temp, how is the bite when cold? Do you street them? I was seriously considering these pads as they were a bit cheaper than the XP8s, but I still thought they would probably be too aggressive for daily use. Plus I got my HP+ F/R for about the same price as a set of XR3 fronts... which is a huge savings. Might not last me as long, but its still like half the price.

No not a dual purpose pad but wouldn't hurt you to leave them on if you are feeling lazy after a track weekend. I leave them on the entire track season though. Use them to drive to the track (one is 2.5 hours away). No safety concerns when commuting. Cold bite is not fantastic but only needs a few brisk stops to start functioning decently. Seriously though they have been fantastic. Run xr3f xr5 rear. Remove your brake prop valve, use cheap blank rotors, and run fluid of your choosing. Excellent setup without getting too fancy.

friday
01-11-2012, 07:41 PM
From my limited experience I can say that brake fluid is going to be the root of many overheating problems. OEM brakes can handle quite a bit on a stock powered car, but older fluid with some moisture in it will boil and get air in the lines very quickly. Fluid servicing is important and the best method is the old two person method. The one track day I have done was a small track with top speeds under 95 for my car and by the end of the day my pedal felt like shit. The pads are fine, but the fluid was full of air after it boiled.

Here are two good articles by Carrol Smith, a very successful racing engineer.

First (http://www.centricparts.com/files/Centric%20White%20Paper%20D1-Brake%20Fluid%201A.pdf)

Second (http://books.google.com/books?id=S0sNFyNwPBYC&lpg=PA191&ots=rBJ6E5yUuo&dq=engineer%20to%20win%20bleeding%20brakes&pg=PA191#v=onepage&q&f=false)

pmhaddad
01-11-2012, 11:25 PM
No not a dual purpose pad but wouldn't hurt you to leave them on if you are feeling lazy after a track weekend. I leave them on the entire track season though. Use them to drive to the track (one is 2.5 hours away). No safety concerns when commuting. Cold bite is not fantastic but only needs a few brisk stops to start functioning decently. Seriously though they have been fantastic. Run xr3f xr5 rear. Remove your brake prop valve, use cheap blank rotors, and run fluid of your choosing. Excellent setup without getting too fancy.

Will keep this in mind. I want to see how my HP+'s do, but my next set could well be these. I wouldn't run anything but blank rotors. I've seen way too many drilled rotors crack in half on the track lol.

Schain
01-12-2012, 11:27 AM
I'll be paying close attention to this thread. I need to figure out what to upgrade my MSM and NA pads to when they wear out. They are daily driven and will be going to a tight, low speed track a couple times a month. I want to make the MSM and NA brake as well as my old NC did when the pads are hot or cold.

stormin'norman
01-12-2012, 12:06 PM
Will keep this in mind. I want to see how my HP+'s do, but my next set could well be these. I wouldn't run anything but blank rotors. I've seen way too many drilled rotors crack in half on the track lol.

In the end it is easy to swap pads back and forth. Not extremely fun but it is relatively quick. Good call on not going with drilled rotors. You lose mass and surface area which means less heat dissipation. I've seen the new R35 GTR fancy pants rotors develop cracks. There are some areas that the marketing department really shouldn't be involved in. ;)

atlnb
01-17-2012, 06:28 PM
makes me feel better about me getting blanks lol. i like it when my thoughts match emilio's and norm's

BMWidmer
01-17-2012, 06:49 PM
Has anybody used any of the performance friction pads on the miata?

Norm,

Just out of curiosity, did you ever auto-x with the cobalt friction?

AARP
01-18-2012, 04:46 AM
Anyone know if Axxis/PBR Ults are still being made? Can't seem to find them anywhere.

wannafbody
01-18-2012, 06:07 PM
I have EBC Yellows on my Miata and they worked fine for HPDE but they aren't a full race pad.

atlnb
01-20-2012, 10:01 AM
Anyone know if Axxis/PBR Ults are still being made? Can't seem to find them anywhere.

they're still available at goodwinracing but out of stock. give him a call

stormin'norman
01-20-2012, 11:37 AM
Norm,

Just out of curiosity, did you ever auto-x with the cobalt friction?

Nope. I don't think I'd want to either. You would never get any heat in them.

BMWidmer
01-20-2012, 11:54 AM
Nope. I don't think I'd want to either. You would never get any heat in them.

Thanks man,

I guess its worth it to just swap pads. Did you pick these up from miataroadster?

stormin'norman
01-20-2012, 12:04 PM
Thanks man,

I guess its worth it to just swap pads. Did you pick these up from miataroadster?

Nope. I get the Cobalts through work. AR Auto Service/Adrenaline Racing. We are a Cobalt distributor and keep most popular apps in stock.

shane
02-10-2012, 05:26 PM
You guys all seem pretty experienced with this so what would you recommend for me?

Stock power 01 SE with sport brakes

95% DD, 5+ autoX events this year 1-2 track events, my first time so I won't be going balls out.

in my 10AE i ran HP+'s and they were too aggressive, ate my new rotors in one year.

Thinking Axxis Ult if i can find them.

What do you guys think would work best for me?

I plan on running SS lines also this yr.

snake520
02-10-2012, 08:02 PM
nopi.com has axxis ults. I just received them yesterday

SFL Miata
03-01-2012, 02:47 PM
I'll throw in a review of carbotech's xp8 pad. I run them on my car which is primarily run on the track. I have a stock power '94 with 225 hankook rs3 tires. After a solid 25-30 minute track session there is little to absolutely no brake fade. They dust like crazy when on the track and they squeak quite a bit when driven on the street and track. Obviously I run high temp motul fluid to avoid boiling. When it's time to replace pads I'll be getting xp10's up front and run the xp8's out back.

Caoboy
03-02-2012, 11:18 AM
XP8's are dope beginner pads. I used them on my NC and did a few track days. They were wonderful. Dusty as hell, but amazing brakes for a beginner/intermediate.