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View Full Version : 2.0L Miata Stroker build



kung fu jesus
01-21-2013, 09:06 AM
Good lord, no, not mine! I wish!

Here is a good friend of mine with his new engine on the dyno, tuning the ECU

http://static.ak.fbcdn.net/rsrc.php/v1/y2/r/5l8_EVv_jyW.swf?v=10151290862482961&ev=0.

Basic configuration: R.S. Aizawa-built, 2.0 liter stoker using FM's stroker parts and others. MS-3, remote tuned.

These are initial dynos, very conservative tuning:

http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/528952_10151290869112961_299887723_n.jpg

171hp/153ft/lbs at 6200. Later dyno pulls achieved more.

The owner says."Quiet, stock-ish sound maybe up to 3K and then it gets raucous. Highest run was 175hp/158lbf.ft@6200/5000... I have less than most S/C or turbos get for $5K but the response is great, it's built like a brick shithouse, and it's uncommon. The car idles and drives very smoothly; from idle-3K it's stronger than stock but not so much that it drives differently and then from 3-4K it begins to feel stronger and from 4-6k it romps."

SM16RMSM
01-21-2013, 09:28 AM
NUMBERS!!!!!!!!!!!!

That is not bad. A nice turbo kit and he be looking at the 400+HP in no time.

kung fu jesus
01-21-2013, 09:31 AM
https://twimg0-a.akamaihd.net/profile_images/1620421465/RIF-LOCKUP.jpg

The numbers are there

I<3flippyheadlights
01-21-2013, 11:53 AM
Damn! That is some awesome NA power! What is the cars main job? Track or daily?

kung fu jesus
01-21-2013, 01:45 PM
Daily.

Phatmiata
01-21-2013, 02:33 PM
Get him on here so we can pick his brain!!!!! That is awesome stuff for sure!

kung fu jesus
01-21-2013, 03:17 PM
He is a friend of mine. Ex-pat American living and working in Japan. He and I, among a few others were trading emails about this build for over a year. He was initially looking to go FI. I met him in SC over the 4th of July last year. GREAT guy to finally meet, even though I have known him for years. As for final numbers, cost wise...you don't wanna know.

He doesn't drive the car everyday, but he and his wife do a lot of traveling in it. He usually rides public transportation, mtn bike or his motorcycle. He was looking rebuilding the engine for FI when his shop found his crank play to be borderline. So, after some advice, excellent questions, and a lot of great research on his part, he settled on N/A. His ultimate goal was reliability and driveability. He had some good brains to pick, so I think he made the best decision for his needs. As the original owner of this car, his mods and updates are carefully chosen and tastefully done.

kung fu jesus
01-21-2013, 03:29 PM
Oh, and after much discussion, and input form other FI guys, his goal was 180bhp. I was suprised a bit when I say the numbers and the torque curve. It makes me giggle a bit everytime I see it. I bet that car is utterly fantastic to drive. Similar power to weight as an S2000, but a more usable power curve, IMO. I hope to get to drive this car one day. :)

Ciotti
01-21-2013, 08:17 PM
Fantastic, this is pretty much EXACTLY what I want to build when I leave STR :)

The Driver
01-21-2013, 11:06 PM
Read his thread at the geezers site. The engine owner stated that his spent a small fortune, but in the end it was what he wanted.

kung fu jesus
01-22-2013, 08:54 AM
OH yeah, not cheap by any means, and it is precisely the output and characteristics he was looking to attain. The car was on a dyno in Japan while the tuner was in Greece. THAT is pretty damn cool!

kung fu jesus
01-22-2013, 12:50 PM
here are more details:

'99 JDM NB
Koyo 37mm radiator
M-Tuned coolant re-route
Maruha header and high-flow cat
RB Exhaust
TDR heat shield
Silicon hoses for much of the cooling system
Hi-comp stroker kit, 1995cc A-beam rods
FM valve spring kit
ARP head studs
ARP main cap studs
FIC Injectors, 445cc
Toda Adjustable Cam Gear I/E
Tomei 10mm/252*/256* cams, SUB
ATI Damper pulley kit
Intake valve, 1mm oversize Stainless Steel
Exhaust valve, 1mm oversize Stainless Steel
ACL Race Main Bearing Set
ACL Race Rod Bearing Set
ACL Thrust Bearing Set
FM oil cooler kit
FM Stage 2 Airflow Kit
FM big spark kit
BE Racer HF Oil Pump Assy
NB2 Oil Pan and Baffle
Flat-top IM
Skunk2 Throttle Body
FM "Prototype" CAI
Cusco Catch Tank
AEM WBO and Oil Temp Gauges
MSII Extended from Reverent

$26k

vindi49
01-27-2013, 06:17 PM
I'm confused by the numbers... 175 at the flywheel is what it says on the screen shot?

Russell.

kung fu jesus
01-28-2013, 08:45 PM
no, correction is off. 175 whp.

dirtybird
01-30-2013, 12:26 PM
26k.? 26,000 dollars on the engine? !!!!!!

kung fu jesus
01-31-2013, 07:51 AM
Yes. Exchange rate + labor expenses in Japan are insane. A similar quality build stateside would be about $15-20k

etikoner
01-31-2013, 12:30 PM
Forged pistons? What's his cr?

Sounds like a kick ass engine, I'm putting together my poor mans version of this... Lol

Roadster Dave
01-31-2013, 04:47 PM
Anybody got a link to the build thread on m.net/cr.net? I looked but couldn't find anything.

vindi49
01-31-2013, 04:51 PM
no, correction is off. 175 whp.

Phew, still a crazy amount to pay for the engine but at least thats some decent power!!

Russell.

Martin
01-31-2013, 05:23 PM
Anybody got a link to the build thread on m.net/cr.net? I looked but couldn't find anything.
http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=487456

Roadster Dave
01-31-2013, 11:26 PM
^Thank you Sir!

mrpham
02-01-2013, 07:12 AM
Very cool! Sure everyone will have opinions on how they would do it, doesn't matter because it's still a mad build :D

kung fu jesus
02-01-2013, 07:53 AM
Every build has a philosophy behind it. This one is unique in some regards because it is like raising the standard of the engine and reserving room for options in the future. Yes, it is spendy and not everyone's cup of tea, but this person intends to keep this car for a long time, if not forever.

kung fu jesus
02-03-2013, 01:09 PM
Some tasty pics:

6517652565246523652265216520651965186526


Check out the polishing on that headwork!
Owner says,"They told me they went all out on this build. Matched volumes, balance/blueprint, etc."

kung fu jesus
02-03-2013, 01:14 PM
A few more:

mrpham
02-03-2013, 07:10 PM
Looks very nice!! So many trick bits.

I'm surprised that the ports have been polished though, I've been told that a rougher finish on the ports allow for better fuel atomisation and faster air velocity.

kung fu jesus
02-04-2013, 09:54 AM
I don't know, but when a shop of that notoriety is going "all out", I gotta believe they know what they are doing.

Pfunk
03-21-2013, 11:21 PM
Hey everybody, this is my motor, and KFJ is far too humble--I bugged him and a few other folks I respect for a long, long time before pulling the trigger. I know Keith at FM and I have tens, if not a hundred mails on just the motor. I think, though, I'd a history of buying parts from FM, 949, and Goodwin, and not balking at shipping costs, so they took my inquiries seriously. There's not much to add to what KFJ posted, though, other than I love the motor. My next project is a rework of the interior. I'd be happy if I didn't have to make a custom dash but I think I might, for my goals. I've always been thrilled with the Miata; I could easily have a Lotus, P-car, or other wheels if I wanted, but I just like making the Mazda exactly as I want it.

Pfunk
03-21-2013, 11:32 PM
Forged pistons? What's his cr?

12.0:1; the FM kit is 11.5:1 but machining the head/block to remove small irregularities bumped it.

Pfunk
03-23-2013, 06:51 AM
Today I took a buddy in the Miata on this road, a mountain pass (峠, or "touge") road west of Tokyo. It's well known with many literbikes and sports cars ripping it up. Cops leave it alone, apparently happy to let people risk their own lives up there. It was the first time since breaking in the motor that I could get the car out of the city: it was awesome. Man, what a fun engine.
https://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&q=35.738362,139.044242

kung fu jesus
03-23-2013, 08:57 AM
Oh, hai! Welcome aboard!

SM16RMSM
03-23-2013, 09:18 AM
Well, now we know who the motor belongs too. The images make it sweater.

kung fu jesus
03-23-2013, 06:14 PM
Well, now we know who the motor belongs too. The images make it sweater.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mrs-3f0WQCY

djsqiigles
06-01-2013, 02:12 AM
i uhhhhh, wow.

Pfunk
06-01-2013, 03:26 AM
i uhhhhh, wow.

Said in a Shaggy/Scooby voice, I could hear many a Weezer fan say just that.

Thumper13
06-01-2013, 07:40 AM
How did you break in the motor and what type of oil are you using ?

Pfunk
06-01-2013, 08:13 AM
I had opposing directions from FM and Aizawa. FM said, "Everyone has their own idea of how to break in an engine based on what their father told them, manufacturer suggestions, half-remembered lore and best guesses. Our break in procedure was developed from talking to other engine builders, piston and ring manufacturers. It works quite well in our experience. We prefer a different method: variations in cylinder pressure to seat the rings. A gentle break-in often causes too much oil use once the procedure is done.

Double check the oil drain plug, install a new quality oil filter and fill the engine with approximately four quarts of 30 wt detergent oil. We recommend a change of oil and filter after 40-80 kilometers, again using straight 30 wt. If you plan to switch to synthetic oil, please wait for at least 1600 kilometers.

Do not let the car sit and idle for a long time. Once you’ve got timing set, no leaks and everything sounds and looks good, take the car out on the road.

Keep in mind that there really shouldn’t be any metal to metal contact happening within your engine, other than the rings to the cylinder walls.

The rings are the ONLY things we are interested in breaking in or seating. What seats rings is cylinder pressure. Rings and pistons are designed so that cylinder pressure sneaks behind the compression rings and forces them out against the newly honed cylinder wall. Take your warmed up car out on the road, find a nice straight stretch and do a couple of heavy throttle runs in third or fourth gear from about 2500-5500 rpm. Each time you hit 5500-6000 rpm, snap your foot off the gas and let the car coast down to 2500 rpm while in gear, to pull high vacuum in the cylinders. Repeat this step about five times and you should have a nicely mated set of rings and cylinders.

Take it home, recheck for leaks, make sure fans work, etc and then change the oil again. Once you have done the ring seating, use the motor normally but no full throttle. Try to vary rpm on the highway and no redline for 500km.
That’s it! Have fun!"

Aizawa said, "We've set the ECU to limit you to 3K rpm and filled it with synthetic oil: drive the car for 1000km (600 miles) and we'll change the oil, then you can use the full rev range, but don't do sustained high rpm runs until you have another 1000km on the motor, at least." Since the MS2 I wanted to use wasn't ready yet and Aizawa used an HKS unit they had on hand, I'd no choice so to speak but to follow their instructions. They swore up and down that they've broken in literally hundreds of motors this way and that in the long run their way was good. They built the motor, so I went with it. We'll see!

Pfunk
06-01-2013, 08:15 AM
Oh, currently has Mobil1 5w-40 but at the next change I was going to try 0w-40.

kung fu jesus
06-01-2013, 09:36 AM
Awesome follow up, Paul. That is an interesting way to look at breaking the engine in.

Pfunk
06-02-2013, 06:53 AM
It's always fascinated me to hear different opinions on how to make power, how to break in a motor, etc., particularly from veteran builders.

wannafbody
06-02-2013, 10:11 PM
I wonder how they break in engines at the factory? Do they run the engine to seat the rings and drain and then add new oil? Nice build.

Pfunk
06-03-2013, 07:55 AM
I've been searching since you posted this as I thought it a great question but so far have mostly found other forums with people sharing what they've seen on factory tours; I've seen no consistent answer.

kung fu jesus
06-03-2013, 08:26 AM
I toured a couple of plants when I was younger, growing up in Detroit. I don't recall seeing anything. I know the specialty, hand-built performance factory engines are all tested individually, such as the GM, Ford, AMG, and BMW 'S' motors. I haven't seen a break in on those either.

I have an uncle who worked RE for the BOC GM center. I know some of the tests they performed on competitor products both on in the lab and in the field, from what he told me, circa '03.

Hyper
06-26-2013, 04:55 PM
I had opposing directions from FM and Aizawa. FM said, "Everyone has their own idea of how to break in an engine based on what their father told them, manufacturer suggestions, half-remembered lore and best guesses. Our break in procedure was developed from talking to other engine builders, piston and ring manufacturers. It works quite well in our experience. We prefer a different method: variations in cylinder pressure to seat the rings. A gentle break-in often causes too much oil use once the procedure is done.

Double check the oil drain plug, install a new quality oil filter and fill the engine with approximately four quarts of 30 wt detergent oil. We recommend a change of oil and filter after 40-80 kilometers, again using straight 30 wt. If you plan to switch to synthetic oil, please wait for at least 1600 kilometers.

Do not let the car sit and idle for a long time. Once you’ve got timing set, no leaks and everything sounds and looks good, take the car out on the road.

Keep in mind that there really shouldn’t be any metal to metal contact happening within your engine, other than the rings to the cylinder walls.

The rings are the ONLY things we are interested in breaking in or seating. What seats rings is cylinder pressure. Rings and pistons are designed so that cylinder pressure sneaks behind the compression rings and forces them out against the newly honed cylinder wall. Take your warmed up car out on the road, find a nice straight stretch and do a couple of heavy throttle runs in third or fourth gear from about 2500-5500 rpm. Each time you hit 5500-6000 rpm, snap your foot off the gas and let the car coast down to 2500 rpm while in gear, to pull high vacuum in the cylinders. Repeat this step about five times and you should have a nicely mated set of rings and cylinders.

Take it home, recheck for leaks, make sure fans work, etc and then change the oil again. Once you have done the ring seating, use the motor normally but no full throttle. Try to vary rpm on the highway and no redline for 500km.
That’s it! Have fun!"

Aizawa said, "We've set the ECU to limit you to 3K rpm and filled it with synthetic oil: drive the car for 1000km (600 miles) and we'll change the oil, then you can use the full rev range, but don't do sustained high rpm runs until you have another 1000km on the motor, at least." Since the MS2 I wanted to use wasn't ready yet and Aizawa used an HKS unit they had on hand, I'd no choice so to speak but to follow their instructions. They swore up and down that they've broken in literally hundreds of motors this way and that in the long run their way was good. They built the motor, so I went with it. We'll see!

I don't like this break in procedure. Usually the old fashioned way works wonders since you have to change the oil very often anyways

My break in procedure is as follow.
run 30 straight oil for the first 50 miles, go easy on the block in this stage.
dump the oil, watch for a grayish color in the oil
run something like 20w50 oil for the next 200-500 miles, increase RPM to 4000 occasionally
dump oil
then use 10w40 oil for the 1000 miles, increase RPM limit to 5000
dump the oil.
use 10w30 oil for the next 3000 miles, increase RPM limit to 6000
dump the oil
use 5w30 or 5w30 oil forever, drive the car to redline

engines built with forged pistons have more clearance in the piston wall so they tend to burn more oil when they are cold.
Run these motors hard only when they are fully warm and always check for a grayish color in the oil this is a sign that the engine is still breaking in
Never broken an engine this way and I don't use synthetic oil in any of my engines

Pfunk
06-28-2013, 02:33 AM
Which way, FM or RSA's method? I went with RSA, as I said, and after the last oil change I've not seen anything other than the usual used oil.