General Supercharger questions... take two

[I<3flippyheadlights]

Alright, I'm installing a M45 Sebring supercharger on my car. It's an old thing but it should put out some decent power for the price. But I have to get it in first! I got a bunch of questions and I'm sure others can offer some advice.

Basic objectives of this thread:

Figure out what I need to finish this SC set up
What I should look out for
General advice

Some background on the SC. It has unknown miles but came off a running car. I have a Voodoo box from FM for the fuel and MSD box for ignition. I have a set of 1.8 injectors, a wideband, boost gauge (I want to look cool), and an assortment of other gauges. I also have a smaller nose pulley for the SC and have no idea what the boost will be with it. I'm going to assume it will be under 8psi.

Finally, I have a 1.8 clutch to hold the power and I'm sure I will blow my 1.6 diff. Oh well. ON TO PICTURES!

Here is a general picture of the supercharger
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7408/8718663815_2171352174_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/79355344@N03/8718663815/)
WP_000584 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/79355344@N03/8718663815/) by I&lt;3flippyheadlights (http://www.flickr.com/people/79355344@N03/), on Flickr

Picture of the throttle body in front of the SC. Its the dummy one but I do have an extra throttle body but have no idea how to install it. Later on that.

Point of this picture, what is that nipple on the pipe for? I know the larger one is for the tube that goes to the intake manifold
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7398/8718663635_c54b5c1830_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/79355344@N03/8718663635/)
WP_000585 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/79355344@N03/8718663635/) by I&lt;3flippyheadlights (http://www.flickr.com/people/79355344@N03/), on Flickr

This obviously isn't tight but this is the extra bracket, right? Goes to the front of the engine? I have the main bracket for the supercharger (two bolts to the engine, 3 bolts on the supercharger) and this single bar bracket. Don't know what else holds it.
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7355/8718663639_0e26e1f43d_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/79355344@N03/8718663639/)
WP_000586 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/79355344@N03/8718663639/) by I&lt;3flippyheadlights (http://www.flickr.com/people/79355344@N03/), on Flickr

Admire the PO's awesome job patching a tube.... seriously... couldn't buy a new tube. That silver thing important?
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7408/8719782714_dd7ac7f43e_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/79355344@N03/8719782714/)
WP_000587 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/79355344@N03/8719782714/) by I&lt;3flippyheadlights (http://www.flickr.com/people/79355344@N03/), on Flickr

The intake pipe wasn't exactly straight. It was bend slightly like it wouldn't go into the intake mani correctly. Is that why there is a bent coupler?
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7425/8719782550_824c5503cb_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/79355344@N03/8719782550/)
WP_000588 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/79355344@N03/8719782550/) by I&lt;3flippyheadlights (http://www.flickr.com/people/79355344@N03/), on Flickr

Ok. Top left is the tensioner, I have no idea what the top right is, and can anyone tell me what those bolts are for? Otherwise, I'm guessing on them.
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7285/8718663257_565afa15b2_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/79355344@N03/8718663257/)
WP_000589 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/79355344@N03/8718663257/) by I&lt;3flippyheadlights (http://www.flickr.com/people/79355344@N03/), on Flickr

More random shit. I'm guessing the most of that stuff is for the throttle body. What is the small rubber line for?
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7284/8719782320_0a6d61e260_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/79355344@N03/8719782320/)
WP_000590 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/79355344@N03/8719782320/) by I&lt;3flippyheadlights (http://www.flickr.com/people/79355344@N03/), on Flickr

As I was cleaning all the brake dust off this artifact, I realized the paint was coming off. I'm media blasting and painting all the brackets/metal parts. What should I do about the SC itself? Is it worth painting? And some of the bolts are rusted on this thing. Awesome
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7380/8719782290_bb1d2e4a44_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/79355344@N03/8719782290/)
WP_000591 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/79355344@N03/8719782290/) by I&lt;3flippyheadlights (http://www.flickr.com/people/79355344@N03/), on Flickr

Little more info.

I plan on buying some GM supercharger oil to put in and a new bypass actuator. The set up should work as is, but I don't want to take any chances. I also plan on running colder spark plugs but I don't want to buy the ones on Moss. (way too much) Can anyone link me to some cheaper ones?


Thanks for any and all advice folks. We had a great thread the first time. Lets try and make it happen again! :8):

[I<3flippyheadlights]

Bumping this because I put it up late last night. Lets get some knowledge in this thing!

[Tekel]

lol, is that garden hose for the tubing? (I know nothing about SC and can provide nothing but witty commentary)

[I<3flippyheadlights]

It could be anything. I have no clue.

[Agent☣Orange]

That hose goes from that fitting on the intake (in the second picture) to the dummy throttle body with that check valve sitting a couple inches away from the dummy TB.

[Demon I Am]

Please replace that bull**** with real auto hose.

[I<3flippyheadlights]

Don't worry guys, the hose will be replaced.

Yellow, I know the big, shitty hose goes from the other side of the intake to the bottom of the intake manifold. You're telling me the smaller nipple goes from that to the throttle body on the intake manifold? Remember, I'm running a duel TB system.

[bahurd]

1. is the second TB operative or just the dummy TB?
2. why would you need/want to have a dual operating TB system with no intercooler and an MP45 system?

[I<3flippyheadlights]

Two actual throttle bodies.

And my reasoning is this. It was cheap, it will give better response, I won't suffer idle droop and if I want to push more boost later I'll have it.

[chiefmg]

If you go on Moss's site, they have (or at least used to) the installation instructions available for their superchargers. If you get a set of those it should answer most of your questions. I'm too far from home to be able to scan a copy of the ones I have.

[afc2112]

I think this is what you're referring to? http://www.moss-europe.co.uk/graphics/uk/instructions/999-156.pdf

FYI, there are some slight differences between a JR and a Sebring SC. Refer to this thread for more info: http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=359801

[I<3flippyheadlights]

Bumping to add more information.

What parts do I need?
Should I repaint the supercharger?
What does that one bracket do mentioned earlier?

I know these are questions I could search but I want to put some knowledge on this website. Making something straight forward and full of info is what this place needs.

[I<3flippyheadlights]

bumpity

[Agent☣Orange]

Bumping to add more information.

What parts do I need?
Should I repaint the supercharger?
What does that one bracket do mentioned earlier?

I know these are questions I could search but I want to put some knowledge on this website. Making something straight forward and full of info is what this place needs.

I appreciate that you're adding to the collective here but you're starting off with a dual-tb setup which is actually two projects in one thread. Not that that's bad or anything, just difficult for most people to jump into helping with only a few picts.

Just to get a little going on your questions:

What parts do I need? Start off with new rubber of course i.e. hoses and belts, get that new bypass valve and consider a fluid change for that SC since it's old. Test the functionality of that big check valve too. If it's bad, replace it. Get yourself some gasket material and Permatex because you might end up making gaskets for throttle bodies and Idle Air Control valve. If possible, pick up a simple PowerCard for this system as it's easier to install, inexpensive and sufficient for this setup,

**Pay close attention to how you seal parts together, attach hoses and clamps. Nothing is worse than getting everything put together only to end up with rough idle that you'll then have to go searching for vacuum leaks. You're already starting off with dual TBs so that alone is going to give you rough idle until you calibrate the two TBs together.


Should I repaint the supercharger? Hell yes. It's ugly. But don't go taking it apart for media blasting unless you plan to have it rebuilt which I suspect is not in your budget right now. You can work wonders with a rotary wire brush (Dremmel) in the oxidized areas along with some wheel paint or hi-temp enamel. With more $, I'd have it blasted and powdercoated but with unlimited money, you could do anything of course.

Consider painting the crossover tube or header wrap which can also be painted. Your's is the early, metal one which was replaced with the plastic version in order to reduce heat soak.


What does that one bracket do mentioned earlier? I suspect it is part of the tensioner system given that it has a block for a long bolt to slide through and a pivot point to articulate the tensioner mechanism. Yours is different than mine so I can't say definitively to put this part on top of that part but there has to be a diagram out there somewhere for it.

[vindi49]

Can't add a lot in here, but if its one of the earlier Sebring chargers (as it sounds like it is) then the nose is different to the current crop of M45 / MP45 chargers...sloping vs flat. So you probably won't be able to swap the nose pulley over for a smaller one, unless you have one that was designed for it.
Post a pic of the nose pulley area from a 3/4 angle and we should be able to tell.

Russell.

[kung fu jesus]

Alright, I'm installing a M45 Sebring supercharger on my car. It's an old thing but it should put out some decent power for the price. But I have to get it in first! I got a bunch of questions and I'm sure others can offer some advice.

Basic objectives of this thread:

Figure out what I need to finish this SC set up
What I should look out for
General advice

Some background on the SC. It has unknown miles but came off a running car. I have a Voodoo box from FM for the fuel and MSD box for ignition. I have a set of 1.8 injectors, a wideband, boost gauge (I want to look cool), and an assortment of other gauges. I also have a smaller nose pulley for the SC and have no idea what the boost will be with it. I'm going to assume it will be under 8psi.

Finally, I have a 1.8 clutch to hold the power and I'm sure I will blow my 1.6 diff. Oh well. ON TO PICTURES!

Here is a general picture of the supercharger
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7408/8718663815_2171352174_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/79355344@N03/8718663815/)
WP_000584 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/79355344@N03/8718663815/) by I&lt;3flippyheadlights (http://www.flickr.com/people/79355344@N03/), on Flickr

Picture of the throttle body in front of the SC. Its the dummy one but I do have an extra throttle body but have no idea how to install it. Later on that.

Point of this picture, what is that nipple on the pipe for? I know the larger one is for the tube that goes to the intake manifold
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7398/8718663635_c54b5c1830_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/79355344@N03/8718663635/)
WP_000585 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/79355344@N03/8718663635/) by I&lt;3flippyheadlights (http://www.flickr.com/people/79355344@N03/), on Flickr

I believe that is where the valve cover vent tube goes to (the one on the drivers/exhaust side of the motor)


This obviously isn't tight but this is the extra bracket, right? Goes to the front of the engine? I have the main bracket for the supercharger (two bolts to the engine, 3 bolts on the supercharger) and this single bar bracket. Don't know what else holds it.
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7355/8718663639_0e26e1f43d_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/79355344@N03/8718663639/)
WP_000586 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/79355344@N03/8718663639/) by I&lt;3flippyheadlights (http://www.flickr.com/people/79355344@N03/), on Flickr

That is the main support bracket. It attaches to the engine, under the blower and supports it.


Admire the PO's awesome job patching a tube.... seriously... couldn't buy a new tube. That silver thing important?
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7408/8719782714_dd7ac7f43e_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/79355344@N03/8719782714/)
WP_000587 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/79355344@N03/8719782714/) by I&lt;3flippyheadlights (http://www.flickr.com/people/79355344@N03/), on Flickr

That is a check valve. It will give you .5 - 1 more PSI. Also helps a bit with idle droop.


The intake pipe wasn't exactly straight. It was bend slightly like it wouldn't go into the intake mani correctly. Is that why there is a bent coupler?
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7425/8719782550_824c5503cb_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/79355344@N03/8719782550/)
WP_000588 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/79355344@N03/8719782550/) by I&lt;3flippyheadlights (http://www.flickr.com/people/79355344@N03/), on Flickr

The 1.6 thermostat housing is vertically positioned off the front of the motor, the 1.8 is horizontally oriented (comes straight out towards the front of the car. the kink in the front of the crossover tube is to clear the 1.8 thermostat housing.


Ok. Top left is the tensioner, I have no idea what the top right is, and can anyone tell me what those bolts are for? Otherwise, I'm guessing on them.
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7285/8718663257_565afa15b2_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/79355344@N03/8718663257/)
WP_000589 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/79355344@N03/8718663257/) by I&lt;3flippyheadlights (http://www.flickr.com/people/79355344@N03/), on Flickr

I cannot speak to the bolts themselves. The three n the right look like replacement hardware, the flanges bolts on the left are OEM hardware, probably. The bracket on the upper right is for the PS pump. The tensioner system for the PS has to be reconfigured to work with the blower and blower tensioner.


More random shit. I'm guessing the most of that stuff is for the throttle body. What is the small rubber line for?
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7284/8719782320_0a6d61e260_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/79355344@N03/8719782320/)
WP_000590 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/79355344@N03/8719782320/) by I&lt;3flippyheadlights (http://www.flickr.com/people/79355344@N03/), on Flickr

Vacuum tubing. The plate on the left, under the cork gasket is the ISC (Idle Speed Controller that is bolted to bottom of the OEM TB on the 1.6 cars) blockoff plate.


As I was cleaning all the brake dust off this artifact, I realized the paint was coming off. I'm media blasting and painting all the brackets/metal parts. What should I do about the SC itself? Is it worth painting? And some of the bolts are rusted on this thing. Awesome
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7380/8719782290_bb1d2e4a44_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/79355344@N03/8719782290/)
WP_000591 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/79355344@N03/8719782290/) by I&lt;3flippyheadlights (http://www.flickr.com/people/79355344@N03/), on Flickr

The unit is from a car that lived in the north or near the ocean. Follow Yellow's advice above. You can paint it, but I wouldn't start tearing it apart. I had the outlet manifold on mine powedercoated to match my valve cover and intake manifold.


Little more info.

I plan on buying some GM supercharger oil to put in and a new bypass actuator. The set up should work as is, but I don't want to take any chances. I also plan on running colder spark plugs but I don't want to buy the ones on Moss. (way too much) Can anyone link me to some cheaper ones?

Oil, cannot comment on that. For the spark plugs, go to the closest, preferred auto parts store. Tell them you want new spark plugs for your car "ONE RANGE COLDER".



Thanks for any and all advice folks. We had a great thread the first time. Lets try and make it happen again! :8):

Good luck!

[I<3flippyheadlights]

Lots of good info is being added!

Now I have a better idea where to go next.

Fueling: Yellow, you mentioned a power card. How much of a difference between a power card and what I have? It may be worth the effort to install what I got now.

Duel throttle body: Should I start off with one and then do two? Or just do two right away?

Nose pulley: I'm gonna be really upset if I can't use the smaller pulley I got, but I should have done the research.

Painting: I am going to sand down nearly everything and make it as pretty as I can. I don't plan on taking apart the supercharger at all.

Temp control: Good idea on wrapping the crossover pipe. I had no idea that would generate so much heat. I'll be sure to do it on the intake elbow as well.

Thanks for all the great advice!

[BrilloHeadBen]

Please replace that bull**** with real auto hose.

*Cough*

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/gtr-65023/overview/

[Demon I Am]

lol, still looks like butchered garden hose :D

[Phatmiata]

Come to my house and take some photos of the Sebring S/C on my Miata and maybe get a better idea of what you are missing if anything???

[Agent☣Orange]

Ooo, that's actually a good idea since they're basically identical. Get a good look at the tensioner setup too and take photos.

[I<3flippyheadlights]

Come to my house and take some photos of the Sebring S/C on my Miata and maybe get a better idea of what you are missing if anything???

When I get a free weekend day, its a plan.