HELP: Timing notch WAY out of spec on my Miata !

[Demon I Am]

I have a 1990 Miata, with a swapped-in 1995 motor on the stock ECU, swap was done in May of '13. I put a timing light on the car shortly after the install and got everything to spec. The car runs well, with no issues, other than poor gas mpg (23/26), and blowing through oil. The only sign of leakage I see is on the tranny, but never enough to leave a puddle or spot. I have never heard pinging or felt underpowered.

I decided to put the timing light on back on the car tonight, and I can not get the timing notch into the plastic timing grid area. I rechecked that I was using the notch, and repainted both the notch and grid. The notch is at the 12:00 position on the pulley, and the CAS is twisted as far clockwise as I can get. The only way to go further would be to remove the adjustment bolt, i guess.

What could have happened to cause this, and how can I fix it? Would jumped timing be the cause? can the pulley slip out of place?

Any advice will be greatly appreciated.

[Unoriginal]

You're using the notch on the accessory drive pulley? If so the rubber dampening can fail and allow it to slip. you may need to replace the pulley with a known good one and see if that solves it.

[Demon I Am]

I didn't have good internet when I sent this out, but I think you are correct. After doing a lot of digging, it looks like I am in need of a new harmonic balancer.

If I set #1 cylinder to TDC, and make a "new" marking in that location, shouldn't I theoretically be able to get it timed properly enough to get me by until I can get the new balancer in? The car is my DD. Would you forsee any problem with doing this as a temporary fix?

[Hyper]

I didn't have good internet when I sent this out, but I think you are correct. After doing a lot of digging, it looks like I am in need of a new harmonic balancer.

If I set #1 cylinder to TDC, and make a "new" marking in that location, shouldn't I theoretically be able to get it timed properly enough to get me by until I can get the new balancer in? The car is my DD. Would you forsee any problem with doing this as a temporary fix?

all BP crank pulleys are defective except the 96 - 05 engines that came with crank wheels. you may have a defective crank pulley (rubber in the damper slipped giving the wrong signal) read flyinmiata article on this.

temporary solution is to remove the valve cover, check all timing marks are aligned properly, rotate engine to TDC and stamp the crank pulley again

[JLBMX5]

Tony when you did your swap did you use the 1.8 crank pulley or the 1.6. Check to see if this balancer issue is same with the 1.6 if you swapped to it as well.

[Demon I Am]

1.6, still on the v belt. I did not check the timing, as it is dark, and I had a cell phone and street lights only. I set the motor to tdc, made a new mark in yellow, on the pulley, then for the car in the 10 degree range. I think the pulley is walking a bit add it ass my readings changed a bit. Got the idle set properly, and everything bottomed up for tonight.
Hopefully out drives done tomorrow our else I'll be replacing a pulley instead of going to Miatas in Boone.

[Hyper]

1.6, still on the v belt. I did not check the timing, as it is dark, and I had a cell phone and street lights only. I set the motor to tdc, made a new mark in yellow, on the pulley, then for the car in the 10 degree range. I think the pulley is walking a bit add it ass my readings changed a bit. Got the idle set properly, and everything bottomed up for tonight.
Hopefully out drives done tomorrow our else I'll be replacing a pulley instead of going to Miatas in Boone.

to properly check the timing remove the plastic covering the timing belt, remove spark number 1, put the oil dipstick in there, rotate engine 2 and a half times to TDC, oil dipstick will raise up the way up, you must check the crank wheel mark is aligned with the reference mark in the oil pump, compare everything then put the plastics back and stamp the pulley.

[Demon I Am]

Pulled the front off of the car and the timing marks, and the crank pulley are all aligned properly. The rubber on the harmonic balancer does not show any signs our wear. Not sure what to do, other than buy a new h.b. And hope it works

[Demon I Am]

to properly check the timing remove the plastic covering the timing belt, remove spark number 1, put the oil dipstick in there, rotate engine 2 and a half times to TDC, oil dipstick will raise up the way up, you must check the crank wheel mark is aligned with the reference mark in the oil pump, compare everything then put the plastics back and stamp the pulley.
yep. not my first rodeo :P

I've been trying to find a harmonic balancer locally, but that's not going to happen on a sunday, i guess. not sure if i should risk the $40 used one, or drop coin on a brand new one. I still do not see how this one is bad, it feels like one solid piece.

[Hyper]

yep. not my first rodeo :P

I've been trying to find a harmonic balancer locally, but that's not going to happen on a sunday, i guess. not sure if i should risk the $40 used one, or drop coin on a brand new one. I still do not see how this one is bad, it feels like one solid piece.

did you remove spark plug number, put the oil dipstick in there and rotate the engine 2 and a half times??

After you do this if all timing marks should align properly. and the engine you be a TDC, you will notice how the oil dipstick will raise all the way on top, a little rotation to the engine and it should go down. Can you post a picture of the crank wheel and pulley with timiing belt??

[Demon I Am]

So I got the car together and running. I am going to need a new h.b in the future. It is idling a tiny bit higher than I want but seems top drive just fine. I think there is a hidden air leak, as sometimes the cat will rev and drop rhythmically, like I'm pressing and releasing the gas. Need to grab a can of starter fluid, and check things out

[Hyper]

did you set the idle by pinning the connectors in the diagnostic box??

[Demon I Am]

Of course. I think it just needs some fine tuning. A fresh mind after some rest.

[atank]

Good to hear your Roadster is up and running, rest will do wonders!

[Demon I Am]

Well, like I said, everything was correct, timing belt wise, other than needing to add some more tension to the belt.

I had paint, but no brush.
http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2857/9764034782_dd941450d1_b.jpg
and
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7376/9764028982_e2f209df68_b.jpg

This is the harmonic balancer aligned on the crank pulley. Everything has been verified at TDC, so the white dot should be at the TDC marker on the "grid". as you can see, it's around 130* off of where it should be. I made a yellow dot at the actual TDC and set timing to that. I know that I can't trust the mark to do any further adjustments. next time the motor comes out, I'll replace it with a new piece.
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5544/9764169991_e76364d18a_c.jpg

[3MiataFamily]

this is not the first HB that has walked around the world and moved the timing marks...the spinning motor has enough forse to let it walk around the circle...holding it in your hand and trying to turn it does not work...

good idea making new marks for the temporary fix...

as these cars age, this will happen more and more...

[Hyper]

Well, like I said, everything was correct, timing belt wise, other than needing to add some more tension to the belt.

I had paint, but no brush.
http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2857/9764034782_dd941450d1_b.jpg
and
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7376/9764028982_e2f209df68_b.jpg

This is the harmonic balancer aligned on the crank pulley. Everything has been verified at TDC, so the white dot should be at the TDC marker on the "grid". as you can see, it's around 130* off of where it should be. I made a yellow dot at the actual TDC and set timing to that. I know that I can't trust the mark to do any further adjustments. next time the motor comes out, I'll replace it with a new piece.
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5544/9764169991_e76364d18a_c.jpg


this thread should put on a special section for future reference to other members, great info here i am glad I was able to help/

[Demon I Am]

Yeah, definitely glad that you guys helped me pinpoint the problem.