small turbo vs n/a for daily driving Miata

[Silvernb03]

I get tired of the stock power of Nb2 Miata. i dont need crazy big hp. I just want my miata little bit faster, maybe around 150. which one would be a better choice for me as daily driving? I drive 120 miles to go to school every other day, so i need something less maintenance as possible. My budget is around 2-3k. I have been thinking about either voodoo I or Ms3 with intake and header. Thanks

[I<3flippyheadlights]

For 3k you can get a pretty decent set up. But if you are driving the car every other day for 120 miles, you won't have time to install it all.

[walsh5racer]

From what all the local guys tell me a supercharger is the way to go for a daily, it is a bolt on and be done affair. There is a guy that has one of the original KraftWorks superchargers on his NB, its a daily and it is VERY fast. I know everyone likes the wooosh bang factor of the turbo, but his car is soo damn fast!!! plenty good for a daily.

a quick search on here and you will find the same kit for a good sale price that meets your budget and even 6 months no interest!!! :whistle:

http://www.projectgla.com/shop_perform.html

http://i1086.photobucket.com/albums/j453/projectgla/gbextension_zpsde553208.jpg

[SM16RMSM]

If you want to spend a bit more money, the Kraftworks kit is really nice. Bolt on HP for 4K isn't bad.

[I<3flippyheadlights]

Supercharger is best for daily driving? Why? They take power from the engine, they need constant tightening of belts, they are less efficient than a turbo (mpg wise)

I love boost and all, but I would rather have a turbo than my supercharger. I'm always fiddling with the damned thing. Then again, my SC is very old.
A rotrex system is nice, don't get me wrong, but the power output isn't the same as a proper turbo.

To me its turbo > rotrex > Twin screw supercharger

If you can take the time to install a turbo correctly, you shouldn't have to touch it ever again. FM/Begi offer plenty of kits that should be easy to put together. If its too tough, go with a rotrex or twin screw SC. It is easier to install initially.

Weigh the pros and cons... and do some more reading. Reading is good.

[Phatmiata]

If you are comparing "KITS" then sure there are a lot of options, however not many in his 2-3K "budget"

Gavin, you bought a old "used" S/C kit that was missing pieces, what did you expect?. There is always going to be fix-it issues, Im quite sure if you had that bought that kit "As'New" in the box there would be zero problems with it. I have the same S/C on my car and never had an issue, however it was purchased new. Superchargers are VERY reliable, the worst that can happen is you break the belt at 80K miles or something, even still you can still drive the car with a busted S/C belt. They may not have excessive HP like a turbo. But the new Rotrex kits are right there, especially for the money!

[I<3flippyheadlights]

Don't get me wrong, I understand that my kit is old and WAS missing pieces. Fact is, many people have had problems with the M45. Belts break often, vacuum leaks are notorious, and they suck gas.

And you can't really compare your SC either. You drive your car how many times a month? I put 130 miles on my car in a day! I'm getting a good understanding for how SC's work in a daily driving situation.


*edit* the fiddling is mostly the belt and vacuum leaks. Otherwise the Supercharger is solid. You never really have to mess with the SC itself if you replace the oil and switch the coupler inside. Same can be said about a turbo and rotrex though...

[RotorNutFD3S]

S/C's can also be more troublesome to get to idle correctly, especially with a lighter flywheel.

But before anyone should address what system to get, what have you done to prepare the car for more power? Is it time for any maintenance (timing belt, fuel filter, trans/diff fluid flush, etc.)? Is it leaking oil anywhere, front or rear main seals, etc.? Does it have a stronger clutch (not always necessary for your goals, but an older OEM isn't going to last long there)? Suspension? Brakes?

Do you live in a place where emissions requirements are in effect?

[Silvernb03]

thanks for response, guys. my car is just 40k miles, and i did all maintenance at 30k. I already lower and add gt3 roll bar,garage star fender brace, frame rail.., but under the hood is still stock. i did little bit research on rotrex. it seems like s/c is less maintenance , but it will suck more gas. Turbo is better in gas, but it is required more maintenance (turbo lag also). Is it right? how about n/a? I am a noob, so i want something simple that i can do and learn from it

[Ihatecars]

Get an itb setup.
Ya know, cuz it's reasonable and all.

I know a guy with a ProCharged G8 that hadn't ever touched it since he put it on. He's making something like 800hp also. Its not a Miata, but and example of a an easily installed supercharger being relatively reliable.

[I<3flippyheadlights]

If you go with any type of supercharger, go rotrex. The twin screw stuff (m45 and m62) arent supported anymore.

But if you want 150whp, just do an intake, exhaust, and MS.

[psulja]

Also, turbo lag won't be a thing with how small of a turbo you'll have if you're only aiming for 150whp. It really isn't a thing with my car and I'm somewhere around 230whp with a 2560.

[I<3flippyheadlights]

Turbo lag doesn't really exist anymore... I mean, unless you get a giant disco potato as a turbo.

[Dandy]

For $2995 the 2003-05 Voodoo turbo system (http://www.flyinmiata.com/index.php?deptid=4523&parentid=0&stocknumber=22-15301%20%20BLK%20GAUGE) is exactly in line with what you are looking for. 170hp rather than 150hp but I imagine you can live with that :mrgreen:.

Once installed it should be pretty much a set it and forget it situation unless you choose to start tweaking things on your own. Your kit will be supported by a company that has been about performance for the Miata as long as Miatas have been in existence. There is a clear and well-proven upgrade path should you desire more power in the future.

I've been around Miatas for a long time and I can't tell you how many times I have read or heard the phrase "I should have started with the FM kit." Give FM a call or send an E-mail and start a dialogue and I don't think you will be disappointed.

[miata2fast]

As a naturally aspirated enthusiast myself, I can say that a well prepped N/A car can be plenty fast and very reliable. The problem is that N/A cars with any appreciable power is pretty involved and can be quite expensive. If I were you, I would start with the things that has proven to work but allows you to be flexible if you are not sure which way to go. Start out with parts like a square top intake, MS, light flywheel/clutch, and rear exhaust. You may find that with those mods, you will be in the power you are looking for. However, if you find that it is not enough power, you can then go in any direction you want whether it is more involved N/A, turbo, or supercharging.

To really unlock N/A power involves going into the cylinder head and bumping up the compression. It can be intimidating for the beginner, and it is not cheap.

[blenderblast]

I daily my turbo '97.. around 60-100 miles a day. Weekends usually around 300 miles or more(Friday - Sunday). I play a lot and I trust my car to get me as far as my money can take me.

I've been driving this car for over a year.
My uncle drove it for 5+ years with the same turbo setup.

[The Driver]

I drove a car with just an AEM ecu, and man I'm sold! AEM or Megasquirt when done well will have a VERY noticeable bump in power. You'll needed anyway if oging FI, so why not start there?

[psulja]

+1 on getting a standalone ecu. Get in touch with Dimitris from MSLabs and he can build you a custom MSII or MSIII for a great price. He's really busy usually with constant orders so you might face some wait time but it's totally worth it.

[Silvernb03]

i am leaning toward turbo because it seems like many people dont have any problems with it. I also have more choices with turbo if I want to make it go faster. right? if so, maybe i start with standalone first. Then i can use that ecu if i decide to turbo my car. do the standalone ecu just plug and play? or does it have to be tuned by professional?

[kung fu jesus]

Holy crap, I see a lot of misinformation.

SilverNB, stay N/A. If 150 bhp is your goal, it is easy to attain with a standalone and a few other bits, like a square top manifold, header and exhaust. The Megasquirt is a nice option and they have a VVT controller too.

That is a pretty easy number to hit with those items, FYI

Why complicate things with forced induction if you don't want higher power?

Those items above, with tuning should set you back *maybe* $2k with tuning? The extra $1-2k you save going n/a can be applied towards further suspension upgrades.

I have been turbo'd twice, supercharged once. I went back to n/a and loved just driving the car without worrying about all the extraneous BS that f/i can bring. If you are a n00b, adding f/i brings an added complexity and cost to maintain. Because it is a DD, you need to keep it simple.

[BoBo]

I get tired of the stock power of Nb2 Miata. i dont need crazy big hp. I just want my miata little bit faster, maybe around 150. which one would be a better choice for me as daily driving? I drive 120 miles to go to school every other day, so i need something less maintenance as possible. My budget is around 2-3k. I have been thinking about either voodoo I or Ms3 with intake and header. Thanks

150hp can be done with bolt-ons and good ecu tuning. I too commute about 120 miles a day to school and work, and turbo power can be a little more on maintenance. With bolt-ons your not gonna really notice anything until you wind up the motor. On the other hand, you will definitely notice the power delivery of a turbo specially if your commuting on the freeway. A decent clutch and 3k on boost will get you going. Non- turbo will always be more reliable with less complications.However, you are just not going to have that power that your probably looking for. You mentioned turbo for a reason.

Money will dictate your dilemma
NA= more reliable & less power.
Turbo= More maintenance & More power.

If commute is more important leave it NA. I commute on boost before and it ain't fun when maintenance comes, but that's because I'm just a FT-college student who also works FT to pay bills.

[Pfunk]

If 150 bhp is your goal, it is easy to attain with a standalone and a few other bits, like a square top manifold, header and exhaust. The Megasquirt is a nice option and they have a VVT controller too.

This. I also second Dimitri for an MS if you're not up to building one yourself. I wasn't, and I had him make one for me--great guy, great product.

I guess I would say you should really think hard on what your goals are. If you are serious about hitting 150rwhp and staying there, with reliability as a key concern, and budget equally in mind, I think:

1) Intake from FM (it's not officially listed, but ask Jeremy or Keith for the "prototype intake," and they'll get you the parts needed to make a functional, useful, CAI. I have one on my somewhat crazy n/a build, and it works as promised.
2) Flat-top intake manifold if you want to improve top-end power; if you're more of a mid-range guy, the one you have will be better, with some modification.
3) Decent header. There are some really nice ones out there that cost a fair bit, but the RB one is cheap and works well, too.
4) Free-flowing cat.
5) Cat-back exhaust. Use your ears as guides, as some of them drone like a mother%$#.
6) Megasquirt ECU--if you're new to tuning, as I was, have it made for you. You'll need to choose what you'll do for the AFM and other inputs needed.
7) Proper dyno tuning.

Dimitri tells me the next iteration of his custom MS will be OBDII-compliant, will have dynamic alternator control, SD-card based datalogging, and other goodness. It isn't ready yet, but I'll be upgrading my current one to that when it's done.

If you haven't already added lightness, that helps, too. Take out the spare, if you have one, and replace it with an NC tire repair kit, or similar, make sure you have the lightest/strongest wheels you can swing, etc.

[Hyper]

the best turbo for a daily driver is a Garret 2554 make sure you choose the ball bearing option. Other than that, you can always upgrade the intercooler and other parts later on.

because you have a 1.8 perhaps the 2560 is best for your engine but the 2554 just spools really fast which is what you want.

[BoBo]

All this turbo talk is getting me teased up, I might have to get one instead of buying an R6 Yammi.

[Hyper]

For 1.8 built engines search Garrett GTX2863R, dual ball bearing turbo.

[Silvernb03]

I have not checkd this thread for awhile. I just got a used mp62 for 2k, i will go low on boost. Hopefully, i wont give me any trouble

[Dandy]

Did it come with fuel management? Are you running a stock exhaust? Keep us posted on the install.

[Silvernb03]

This is the post "Selling my mp62 supercharger kit from track dog racing. I bought it about a year and half ago and had it installed for a few months. The kit is for cars with power steering and a/c although you could run no a/c with smaller belt. The kit is/was carb legal and is controlled via power cards. The power cards are direct plug and play, so there is no wiring at all necessary to install this kit.
kit includes:
Installation manual
mp62 sc and mounts
pnp power cards
dummy throttle body
upgraded belt tensioner"
He also gave me cxracing intercooler core. i need i buy the piping from ebay and route it. This kit is for nb1, but I was told that it will fit my nb2. All i need is just the boomslang for it. Does it seem like resonable deal?

[Dandy]

OK, the power cards are managing the fuel and engine computer, more or less.

What you have is probably comparable to this:
http://www.rspeed.net/RSpeed_MP62_based_supercharger_system_p/nab-1337.htm

Here's another close match:
http://www.fastforwardsuperchargers.com/miata-low-cost-kit.html

I wouldn't worry about "deals" at this point since you have it. The kit was expensive to produce which is why it has been discontinued. You'll want to learn as much about your kit as you can and look at the other kits to make sure you have everything you need. I'm not sure if you need to upgrade your fuel pump. I know that was something that should be done on the NA's with the M45 kit. Having the intercooler is nice. I don't know how easy it is to add the piping and get it fitted. You'll probably want to upgrade your exhaust at some point to take full advantage of FI as you do with all FI systems. For a supercharger you'll want a header too. So plan on these and probably a clutch at some point but what you have should be fine to start with, assuming the kit is complete. Good Luck.

Here's a whole thread of MRnet members' various supercharger set-ups: http://mazdaroadster.net/showthread.php?503-Guilty-as-Charged-The-Supercharger-Mega-Thead&p=4683&viewfull=1#post4683

[Silvernb03]

It has not shipped yet, so i think i still can back out on the deal if the price is not right

[Dandy]

I think it is a fair deal. For forced induction it would be pretty hard to do much better than $2k for a complete kit with only a few months use. Although for the same $2k there were some very good naturally aspirated options listed in this thread. Of course I have my biases. When you add in the cost of a header (~$400), you are getting closer to my suggestion in post #14 for a fully supported, brand new, and complete turbo kit.

It sounds like you made a commitment, so I wouldn't sweat it. Get it. Get it installed. Drive it. It will be a learning experience no matter what you do. I don't think you will be disappointed.

[Super Grandpa]

I am brand new to the forum. But here is my 2 cents. If you want less maintenance and headaches stay NA. I had a FFS Coldside M62 and lost an engine with it. Still do not know what happened. I think the cheap timing card failed.

I have two Miatas. One is a 93 with an M45 and it works great. You can find those used for between $500 and $1,500. My other Miata is a 97 and I am putting on a BEGi Garrett turbo that will produce 260 whp.

One of my best friends is a Miata FI specialists. He just sold his car with M62 and bought a new Miata. He says for everyday use there is no need for FI.

Whatever you do you can't go wrong - as long as you set up the engine correctly to prevent detonation with a turbo or SC. Best way to prevent detonation is to get a MegaSquirt Plug & Play 2 from BEGi. They cost $800

[psulja]

One of my best friends is a Miata FI specialists. He just sold his car with M62 and bought a new Miata. He says for everyday use there is no need for FI.

Whatever you do you can't go wrong - as long as you set up the engine correctly to prevent detonation with a turbo or SC. Best way to prevent detonation is to get a MegaSquirt Plug & Play 2 from BEGi. They cost $800

There may not be a need for FI but it is sure nice to have, even for daily use. Right now I'm switching between my Civic and Grand Marquis for daily use, and always driving a slow car can get frustrating. I can't wait 'til I can bring the Miata out again, the extra power is really nice for overtaking and merging.

Just getting a megasquirt won't prevent detonation. You need to know what you're doing for tuning, or be ready to pay someone to tune the car for you. There are also a few other places to pick up an MS, such as Dimitris from MSLab's (aka Reverant) who builds enhanced megasquirts and can set you up with a pretty solid base tune for your car. 949Racing also has the PnP MS2.