Mazda Roadster election poll – Flyin Miata 1.6 Turbo versus GM Ecotec 2.4

[MiataQuest]

The key goals for my 1992 NA Eunos Manticore build:
* Canyon carving – well actually hill carving in SE Ohio and curvy country roads.
* Long distance highway trips – Miatapolooza, Dragon, fall tour, etc
* Occasional track day.
* Drivability with the air conditioning running – Gotta keep the wife happy!
* Long term reliability

The PRIMARY ELECTION is over, time to vote for the final winner.
For this vote the following options have been taken off the table:
* Kmiata
* Monster Ford V8
* Various GM LSx kits

POWER DELIVERY:
1.6 turbo dyno chart


2.4 19208889 stock EcoTec chart (Header, exhaust, and tune should yield 195hp)


COSTS: Consider the costs to be equal
* Miata 1.6 engine refresh, head work, plus Flyin Miata FMII kit
* New (not remanufactured) GM Ecotec 19208889 engine, plus conversion kit, etc

WEIGHT: Consider the weight to be equal
* 1.6 engine @ 280 lbs plus turbo, intercooler, turbo plumbing and oil cooler system
* EcoTec 2.4 @ 273 lbs

Miata 1.6 FMII ADVANTAGES
* Total Horsepower and Torque at higher RPM’s

GM Ecotec 2.4 ADVANTAGES
* Horsepower and Torque curve at lower RPM’s
* Less under-hood heat, no re-route or oil cooler is required.
* Less under-hood clutter and easy serviceability.
* Can be turbocharged or supercharged at a later date in it's present form.

FYI link to new engine: http://paceperformance.com/i-6223196...er-engine.html

I am looking for your opinions since as you can tell I have a slanted bias towards the EcoTec.
So I will be eagerly watching the MRNN (Mazda Roadster News Network) for your opinions and the election results

[NCGreasemonkey]

Just doooo it!

I want to see a pecker-wreck, Sorry, Eco-Tech in you NA! And oh heck yeah they can be boosted later!

One vote for Eco.
Hey, done anything with the SAT2 wing yet? Hammerhead and myself would like to know.

[MiataQuest]

Nope, have not touched the wing.
I have been working on the house, the wife's Mustang II, the Blazer, and the Audi.
That damn Audi takes up too much of my time to keep running especially since I drive it 600 miles a week!

[NCGreasemonkey]

What Audi are you DDing? Just nosey. V-10 odd-fire R8?

[MiataQuest]

It is a 1987 Audi 5000 Quattro sporting a 2.3 I-5 with 140 hp.
It is a momentum car like the Miata.
On a recent rally I could hang or pull everyone on the curves while keeping the engine revved between 4000 to 6000 RPMs. However, it lacks the torque to pull ahead on the straights after an upshift or pull a hill.
After this rally I knew I couldn't live with the Miata's lower end response.

On the flip side, the linear power of the Audi allowed me to power the car through most of the curves. This was accomplished by getting the car to take set as I entered the corner then gradually adding more power throughout the curve at the edge of adhesion. I don't think that would work so well if I had a turbo and the boost suddenly came on. I would probably be bird watching in the forest.
So linear power is something I also seek for the Miata.


It is the gray Audi 5000 Quattro in the center of the second picture.
The Ohio 555 (triple nickel) is a great drive heading south out of Zanesville, Ohio. (Not far from Columbus) It is full of curves and quick hill drops while having good pavement.

[NCGreasemonkey]

Nice ride. And thanks for keeping it up. I like the Audi 'pull'. But the upkeep can be a hindrance.

Power on Quest!

[— Phatmiata —]

FM2 because if not then go V8Roadsters

[NCGreasemonkey]

FM2 because if not then go V8Roadsters

Quit humping your new neighbor's leg! We, not of Fla. $$$, have taxes to pay and V-8 is a dream.

[— kung fu jesus —]

Pure opinion, but the 1.6 turbo is low-hanging fruit. A non-related engine swap inevitably involves more customization and cost overruns than initially forecast.

I like n/a over f/i, but I have done both. I believe it would be worth your consideration to weigh out moving to a 1.8 vs the 1.6. The parts for the 1.6 are not as readily available as they used to be and there are far more 1.8 engines produced, I believe. The extra displacement will also get you to your power goals for less work. The other bonus is the 1.8 drops right in your current chassis with off-the-shelf parts. There is also far more aftermarket support for the 1.8 than the 1.6. Unless you planned to move to a strict emissions state, the 1.8 build is the no-brainer. You have three generations of 1.8 parts to work with to build a nice engine without machine work (like head porting and valve work). The 1.6 build is quaint, but the Ecotec swap is vastly on the other end of the spectrum. The 1.8 is the median. I think you can make that power goal easily with a fresh NB 1.8 and 8 psi.

If you want to be a guinea pig, the non-related swap is interesting. The upkeep will be more difficult and the reliability unknown. I think, if I'm understanding your intentions correctly, the reputation and support of the turbo Miata in your power goal is the easiest route.

Good luck!

[Greasemonkey2000]

For your goals i personally think the Ecotec swap fits your wants/needs. As far as cost here is a break down from someone who did one this year:

Sure, the short of it would be:

Purchased:
$1950 swap kit
$400 engine w/ 50k
$142 ebay header
$400 used ecu and standalone harness (alphafab)
$75 assorted mandrel exhaust bends
$30 V band and clamp set
$45 Denso o2 sensor
$380 ACT 1.6L XT clutch and new slave
$12 GM factory FIPG (gasket tube)
$50 assorted primary wire and supplies
$200 dyno tune
Total Purchased $3684

Resold:
$400 Square top intake
$550 MS2 pnp
$350 RB header
$175 AWR mounts
$200 M tuned reroute
$40 BP fuel rail
$125 BP5A ecu
$25 BP silicone coolant hoses
$200 Skunk2 tb
$100 K&N intake
Total resold to date $2165

Still unsold:
BP5A engine
4.3 diff
many various other things

I have actually broke even a while ago, but I sold a few other miata parts I had hanging around to get there that I had laying around before the swap.

Dyno and drag update:

192.5whp 195.4wtq

13.82@100.5
2.02 60ft

I believe that is stock other than air intake, exhaust and tune. In all fairness the latter is supposed to make the biggest difference.



Build thread: http://clubroadster.net/vb_forum/89-...ggplant-5.html

These motors are cheap and readily available and if sub 200whp n/a isn't enough then you could put on a oem supercharger or turbo but the torque would kill the 5spd and even the 6spd would be living on borrowed time. This is the most intriguing swap, imo, all things considered. They even offer components to make ps and ac possible.

[Stealth97]

1.6<anything

[MiataQuest]

1.6<anything

That simple statement may have convinced me to proceed with the 2.4L Ecotec.
No matter what I do to a 1.6, it is still 1.6 liters at lower RPM's.

Ohh ya this

[NCGreasemonkey]

I am also happy with Chad's (GM2K) input. Barking them thru 4th would be fun at every light. And the price looks good.

Do we go skipping down this trail together, MQ? LOL

How many times is too much to watch that clip?