Thoughts on Mazdaspeed NB Miatas?

[speedypenguin]

Hi MR,

Long story short, I acquired a 2004 SVT Focus mid last year, as I was nostalgic for my old high school car. My SVT Focus is also 1 of 66 made in that configuration, so the "rarity" and the good overall condition persuaded me to get the car.

Here is said car: YELLOW! It's definitely grown on me.



That being said...I test drove a Mazdaspeed NB Miata last weekend. It left an impression on me...I liked the additional power the turbo provides. The car felt more involving than my old 10AE, and it's in good condition. Also, it's black and the Grand Touring trim, so the car looks quite sleek. All stock, maintenance has been kept up (i.e. recent timing belt and water pump change, all dealer serviced)



The thing is...I would have to sell my SVT Focus to get the Mazdaspeed. The question: should I pursue it or not? Is there a good amount of potential to improve the Mazdaspeed? If I were to get the Mazdaspeed, it'd be a dual-purpose car like my NA, but obviously with more power.

[MLambert19]

That EAP SVT looks excellent! I had an '03 SVT 2-door in red (non-EAP, cloth seats), I really liked it for Texas.

I also had an '04 MSM a few years after. Mine was Titanium Grey with the GT pack, no hardtop, all stock.

Your Focus offers much more utility than the Mazdaspeed. But if having flat-folding seats, rear seats, and a roof, doesn't matter...

The MSM has some shortfalls. The factory turbo isn't the best, and had I kept mine, it would have received a full FM setup (exhaust, intake, injectors, engine management, clutch and better turbo...eventually).

I actually think the Getrag transmission in your SVT rivals the 6-speed NB box for tight, gratifying shifts.

The SVT handled really well, for FWD. Those Focus' were light, nimble... maybe not as tight as the MSM, but pretty darn good for FWD.

If it were me... I'd keep the SVT and save up for more power in your NA... have the best of both worlds. If you're tired of the SVT and want something similar for a daily, maybe try on a Mazdaspeed3. My best friend loves his Speed3, because it offers a lot of utility in a fun package with near 300hp with basic bolt-ons.

-Matt

[Airbrush1]

I LOVE my mazdaspeed, but still wish I had never sold my NA. If you want the mazdaspeed because it's a factory turbo car and you want more power, don't bother. You'll have to replace all the factory turbo stuff to make any real power anyway. If you want it because it's arguably the best miata ever produced and it's exclusive... buy it and love it!

[JamieH]

The MSM is great... once you fix all the shortcomings Mazda tossed into it along with the turbo.

Heavy 17" wheels, reduced turning radius steering rack (supposedly to give clearance for said wheels), delay valve clutch master, no cruise control, and aftermarket ECU required to fix the reduced revlimit of 6,500.

The turbo is on the small side, and if I remember correctly, is maxed out at 14psi. Which isn't to say good power can't be made on the stock turbo. Full aftermarket exhaust, hardpipes, intercooler, injectors, and Megasquirt would provide plenty. But it'd take gobs of E85 and pushing the stock turbo well past it's efficiency range to make the power you could more easily and reliably get from a bigger turbo.

But the MSM is still a fun car at stock power... after you fix those shortcomings. Really, After getting used to revving a Miata out to 7k, being stuck at 6,500 would be a daily annoyance. The delay valve clutch is also really damn annoying. But that revlimit is the worse since it'll take an aftermarket ECU to fix, and that's something like $900 at the least, I think.

Honestly, I have no idea what Mazda was thinking gimping the MSM so much from the factory. I guess on the upside the MSMs have the most chassis bracing of any NA/NB Miata from the factory thanks to that extra cross brace/plate. PLus, they do have the best cylinder head that came on any 1.8 (if I remember correctly, my overly indecisive friend with a blown MSM engine has done a ton of research on it and told me something about the MSM having redesigned coolant passages or something). So, yeah, I guess there is a lot of potential to improve the MSM. From my point of view at least.

Oh, ah, check for purple stitching on that car's top if you decide to pursue it. From everything I've seen, all stock Mazda Miata tops have that purple stitching and none of the aftermarket tops do.

[Paul B]

Here is my opinion...and my experiences...Bear with me.

I own an NA Miata.
I once owned an NA with turbo.
Mother owns an 04 5spd NB (non Mazdaspeed) has intake & exhaust
Father owned a 02 6spd NB (non Mazdaspeed) with intake and exhaust
Ive driven a stock Mazdaspeed Miata; mind you it was quite a few years ago.
I daily drive a Mazdaspeed3.

While I would like to own a Mazdaspeed Miata,(one day I will) it would not and could not replace my nat asp NA Miata or my old turbocharged NA. MSM would always be the second Miata in the garage.

A Mazdaspeed Miata could easily replace any other NB except maybe a pristine condition 10AE (which you used to have one). And like everyone has said before, they immediately need upgrades. The power was very dull in the MSM. Only times I really felt the turbo kick in was going up hill where it would save me from a downshift that would be required in any other NB. My mother and father's NB were woken up at low RPM just by intake and exhaust. Basically, for me, it was hard to find the turbo in the MSM. FM parts solve that though but that's an immediate expense to consider.

You have a "hot hatch" similar to my Speed3. If you do anything that requires a more efficient use of car space, back seat, trunk or roof rack etc (bicycle, buying a tv, have a dog that needs transport etc) these cars come in handy. It also helps me appreciate the Miata that much more, but that's for another day. Id advise against selling SVT to fund MSM.

Your NA is quite awesome. I think you should turbo NA.

If you currently had a non 10AE NB, Id say sell that and fund MSM.

Keep NA. Keep SVT. Acquire MSM another way?

hopefully all these words make sense. and help in some way.

[speedypenguin]

Thanks for your input everyone. The SVT is another fun car for me, as I'm trying to keep the miles low (it's an '04 with 53K miles, I bought it from the original owner) It does also bring me nostalgia from my high school days with my '02 Black SVT. The four doors on this one definitely make it more usable, as I have had to help family move quite a few times over the past year.

Matt, my daily currently is a Fiat 500e. I drive my SVT about once a week, mainly to keep the car running. I agree with you, the SVT Focus drives very well for a FWD, and the gearbox is very nice. It could use a little more power though...

Jamie, thanks for your input. Sounds like an MSM would quickly become another project...hm.

Airbrush1, the MSM NB is my favorite NB, and if I were to get another NB in the future, it'd have to be a nice MSM.

Paul, you bring up a good point about the MSM's power delivery. I too drove it up some twisties during my test-drive, and noticed the turbo while going uphill. During normal street driving amongst traffic, I agree, the turbo isn't noticeable, combined with the fact it needs to build boost at higher RPMs and the close-ratio 6spd box. And...I have a M45 supercharger setup that's been sitting in my garage for almost 1-1/2 years now...bought it for my NA. After the next smog check, I'll take the NA off the road for a bit to install the supercharger, as well as an aftermarket MS ECU.

[— Phatmiata —]

I would love to have a Mazdaspeed Miata, but not enough room in the garage for another miata............... yet

[atlex]

only cool thing about the mazdaspeed is the bodykit, IMO. the rest is some corporate vision of a turbo car.

[BoBo]

I drove a MazdaSpeed Miata recently and it was a blast. The power is there, it would have been nice if it was supercharged from the factory, but turbo is good to. The factory 17'' wheels are nice, but if it was me I would put some 15x8 all around. Again that's just my preference. The Speed Miata is a blast and all it needs is a roll bar.

I used to own a SVT Focus. I wasn't really much of a front wheel drive guy, but I had to buy one. The car really handle well for a front drive car. The transmission is fantastic, it had plenty of room and became a "Do it all Car". Sometimes, I feel like I regret selling it. It was just good car all around. I was happy with the factory suspension, I only upgraded the sound system.

When I had the SVT I wanted to boost it, but I was afraid it might ruin the handling plus the torque steer. It was the best front-drive car I had. I would have kept it, if I didn't moved around a lot. I was planning on putting a roll bar on it as well.

[orimar]

I have a MSM. I would choose that over a Focus SVT any day. I have fun in my MSM and my SVT was fun, but not as much as my MSM. just my thoughts. no science behind it. just preference.