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Thread: I did a thing.

  1. #391
    Ninja Messiah kung fu jesus's Avatar
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    The driveline knocking came back. I tried replicating it with the wheels in the air, car in gear, forwards and reverse, no joy. I inspected the drive shaft u-joints, no joy. I looked at the pinion play and halfshaft play, no joy. I found a lot of threads with similar issues, but rarely any resolution.

    I made a video of the sound, from in my trunk, just moving forward and reverse normally in my driveway. You can hear the knocks.



    I searched the internet using various phrases and combos and stumbled upon one at another Miata forum. It referenced worn UCA (upper control arm bushings) with pics of how that person's bushings looked when the noise occurred. I ran out side, peaked at my UCAs. Bingo! Here's what mine looked like:

    34581165_10216782617788000_1720090163884851200_n.jpg
    RR UCA

    34703102_10216782599547544_2710521304653496320_n.jpg
    34583319_10216782600427566_6992267780783341568_n.jpg
    LR UCA

    See how the arms are shoved to one side, plat against their shackles on the rear sub frame (RSF)? Yeah, that's not supposed to be like that. What I believe is happening is the UCA is banging against the RSF under accel and lift. This sort of explains why the noise was moving around on me, first it was on the right, then the left. I ordered the Energy Suspension rear bushing kit. I will tackle the UCAs, so as not to disturb the alignment, then we will see how this goes. I was worried my diff was on the way out, I had already put in notice I wouldn't be at Road Atlanta next week, but this may save the event for me! I hope the bushings arrive when they say they are!

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  3. #392
    2,000 rpm - light wheelspin, no bog here! turboedpickup's Avatar
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    Hey you're me! Mine are mainly the passenger side RUCAs - chassis side vs wheel side. Mine were new. They still shifted :-/ Going urethane is probably a good call.

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  5. #393
    4,000 rpm - entering the fun zone Paul B's Avatar
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    looking forward to seeing your bushing replacement post. I plan on doing mine once this summer driving season is over

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  7. #394
    Ninja Messiah kung fu jesus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by turboedpickup View Post
    Hey you're me! Mine are mainly the passenger side RUCAs - chassis side vs wheel side. Mine were new. They still shifted :-/ Going urethane is probably a good call.
    Yep, I figure the arm(s) is loading up on the bushing (the OE bushings are fixed), then slips and 'bangs' against the subframe. In hindsight, I remember my wife's '99 made a similar noise when one of her front bushings did the same thing. Different situation, similar noise.

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul B View Post
    looking forward to seeing your bushing replacement post. I plan on doing mine once this summer driving season is over
    I only bought the rear kit for now to fix the RUCAs without disturbing the alignment settings. I'll probably do something similar on the fronts (the uppers first), then I'll finish up the all the lowers and maybe some hardware.

    I'm pretty sure this will fix the issue, if not I may have some diff issues or an axle to deal with.

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  9. #395
    6,000 rpm - mere mortals would shift HarryB's Avatar
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    Mine have shifted too; not to the point of touching, but still. Makes sense after 110k miles.. Ideally, I would like a thrust surface/"shoulder" to take all the longitudinal loading. Derlin bushings with machined shoulders would work, but I'm afraid of NVH. Tending towards rubber replacement ones (IL motorsport?), and just coat the arm bores with some sort of retaining substance/adhesive prior installation.

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  11. #396
    Ninja Messiah kung fu jesus's Avatar
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    I did a thing.

    I was considering the IL bushing set for this in the future, but the vendors who carried them, including IL-USA, show them as no longer available.

    The key to the polyurethane bushings is to keep them lubricated, the metal insert especially. They are a different material and mechanical design than the OE bonded rubber units. That metal insert is what the arms pivot on, so if they dry out, the bushings fight against the rotation of the inserts.

  12. #397
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    I did a thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by HarryB View Post
    Mine have shifted too; not to the point of touching, but still. Makes sense after 110k miles.. Ideally, I would like a thrust surface/"shoulder" to take all the longitudinal loading. Derlin bushings with machined shoulders would work, but I'm afraid of NVH. Tending towards rubber replacement ones (IL motorsport?), and just coat the arm bores with some sort of retaining substance/adhesive prior installation.
    I wonder if there are needle roller thrust bearings that would work longitudinally between the arms and the bolts or inserts? Seems complicated and pricey.

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  14. #398
    4,000 rpm - entering the fun zone Slampen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kung fu jesus View Post
    I was considering the IL bushing set for this in the future, but the vendors who carried them, including IL-USA, show them as no longer available.
    Sure they are not just out of stock?
    I see IL in Germany has plenty

  15. #399
    6,000 rpm - mere mortals would shift HarryB's Avatar
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    I assume out of stock in US. The issue about poly ones is that PU has an ungodly amount of stiction, so it's not the best for sliding/rotating bushings like the ones in NA/NBs. Usually they rely upon liberal application of grease; and even then you need to make sure they have grooves for it (acting as grease buffers) to allow the inner metal sleeve to rotate. In that essence they are worse than the OEM-style rubber ones; those add up to the spring rate through shear forces on the rubber while also having some damping through internal friction. Poly ones act purely as friction dampers. This is why I am thinking of using Delrin ones; but I'm a pussy as it regards NVH, so keep going back and forth vs IL and those.

    Quote Originally Posted by kung fu jesus View Post
    I wonder if there are needle roller thrust bearings that would work longitudinally between the arms and the bolts or inserts? Seems complicated and pricey.
    I do not like needle bearings in such applications; typically they are not sealed, and that means they will get contaminated in 0 time and freeze, turning to expensive washers. You would be better off with any sort of "thrust bushing" although I doubt there's enough space in there to fit one plus any regular bushing. Another plus for the Delrin idea.

  16. #400
    Ninja Messiah kung fu jesus's Avatar
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    Yeah, this will not be my first time doing PU bushings in Miata arms, not even close. ;)

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  18. #401
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    Thanks for the feedback, fellas!

    A little update...

    The new engine mounts and diff bushings introduced a lot more NVH. It decreased a little as they settled in, but my door panels, outboard mirrors, and hood buzz, shake, and rattle at idle. The drivers door and good especially.

    I was a bit skeptical of their effectiveness, but I bought a pair of GarageStar door bushings. Installation was easy, I filed a *little* off the drivers side bush.

    IMG_9696.JPG

    IMG_9697.jpg

    IMG_9699.JPG

    To solve the hood issue, I tried placing a few small-ish squares of the insulation left over from the carpet install under the hood. It worked! I may remove it to make it neater, but I was pretty relieved.

    IMG_9700.JPG

    The outboard mirrors buzz a little at a certain speed/frequency, I think I have a resolution for those as well.

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  20. #402
    Individual-1 ☚ ☻ ☛ Agent☣Orange's Avatar
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    I was going to ask where you placed those on the hood.


    No todo que es oro brilla.

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  22. #403
    Ninja Messiah kung fu jesus's Avatar
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    It was an experiment and probably should have added one at a time. I saw the worst deflection/movement at the center, trailing edge while sitting in the car, so it made sense to me to put pieces to me at the point furthest from the mounting points (side hinges and center latch).

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  24. #404
    6,000 rpm - mere mortals would shift HarryB's Avatar
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    Gotta love nice simple fixes ;)

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  26. #405
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    Absolutely! K.I.S.S.

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