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  1. #31
    Supporting Member DarylSibcy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MLambert19 View Post
    That's the link I was looking for earlier!! I couldn't find it...


    Quote Originally Posted by Greasemonkey2000 View Post
    You would think he could work a deal with UPS or FedEx for better shipping prices. I was shocked at how much higher his shipping rates were than other distributors of roll bars, granted different brands but his cant be that much heavier.

    I still think Moti, BBFW, makes the best miata roll bar, I've seen, and all his custom work for race cars kind of blows away the argument that Hard Dog is "more proven". Based on what, sales, quantity, years in business, roll overs survived? Moti is clearly skilled and no offense to Hard Dog but, imo, Moti's bars is a whole another level above theirs. I think Adam's review pretty much plays out all the reasons
    Moti's shop is a lot smaller than other businesses. BBFW manages to meet a good volume of sales and business for it's size - similar to RevLimiter considering it's mostly a one-man-band. Granted Moti will have a small team for help too. Flyin' Miata's shipping rates are just as bad, it's literally just cost me $200 to ship a set of sway bars to the UK, and they apparently cover half the cost up front now so the shipping quote is $400 with UPS. UPS and FedEx both seem expensive to me, I can send almost anything up to 10kg regardless of size to Europe for 20, with tracking.

    On the note of quality; Moti's bars are definitely quality pieces, it's the main reason I want the GT3 but my wallet says otherwise. $1300 seems an awful lot for an off the shelf design, any extras like different tubing and a different paint job can easy add another $100-$200 to an already expensive piece. Again, that's before shipping to the UK for me, I'll be looking at over $2k by the time it's arrived and whether customs decide to be pr*cks about it being shipped
    You want a good car. I want a good miata.

  2. #32
    5,000 rpm - there be torque here! Greasemonkey2000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MLambert19 View Post
    https://www.facebook.com/BlackbirdFa...23170524402618

    When I bought my NA SD, they were $495. The NB SD was $645.

    Was quoted $1315 shipped to Florida for a NB SD just the other day.

    -Matt
    Oh wow, should have clicked the link. Ya think the bar itself was around $900(2 yrs ago), iirc, so $200+ is fairly significant price increase.
    '01 NB2 aka MisF1re: http://mazdaroadster.net/showthread....218#post207218
    '97 M aka Warbird, gone but not forgotten: http://mazdaroadster.net/showthread....B&goto=newpost
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  3. #33
    3,000 rpm - starting to feel the power Roadster7's Avatar
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    I paid $895 shipped for mine earlier this year.

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    DarylSibcy (12-05-2018)

  5. #34
    5,000 rpm - there be torque here! Greasemonkey2000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roadster7 View Post
    I paid $895 shipped for mine earlier this year.
    Edit: Ok thought you were talking about the gt3 but you have a NB SD so it went up by $200 or 22.4%....ya that is pretty significant. From my understanding the cost of metal hasn't actually gone up, this true?
    Last edited by Greasemonkey2000; 12-04-2018 at 07:57 PM.
    '01 NB2 aka MisF1re: http://mazdaroadster.net/showthread....218#post207218
    '97 M aka Warbird, gone but not forgotten: http://mazdaroadster.net/showthread....B&goto=newpost
    Instagram: @greasemonkey2000

  6. #35
    3,000 rpm - starting to feel the power Roadster7's Avatar
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    No idea. BBFW aren't the only ones increasing prices though, so let's not simplify this down to them just doing it because they can.

  7. #36
    2,000 rpm - light wheelspin, no bog here! bogaut's Avatar
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    yes cost of raw materials has gone way up.

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  9. #37
    Ninja Messiah kung fu jesus's Avatar
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    They all went up with the new tariffs and trade issues. The Bethania bar I bought last year was ~20-25% higher than the one I bought in 14.

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    Greasemonkey2000 (12-04-2018)

  11. #38
    5,000 rpm - there be torque here! Greasemonkey2000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roadster7 View Post
    No idea. BBFW aren't the only ones increasing prices though, so let's not simplify this down to them just doing it because they can.
    I was certainly not implying that. I know a few other vendors have gone up but never looked into the core issue.
    '01 NB2 aka MisF1re: http://mazdaroadster.net/showthread....218#post207218
    '97 M aka Warbird, gone but not forgotten: http://mazdaroadster.net/showthread....B&goto=newpost
    Instagram: @greasemonkey2000

  12. #39
    Supporting Member DarylSibcy's Avatar
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    IIRC it’s to do with America and China not getting along so they keep playing games of ramming each others import/exports up, it just so happens that Steel and Aluminium got taxed an extra 20-30% during whatever petty feud they have....

    From the best of my knowledge, I could be wrong...
    You want a good car. I want a good miata.

  13. #40
    Ninja Messiah kung fu jesus's Avatar
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    Canada too.

  14. #41
    Forum Sponsor revlimiter's Avatar
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    My opinion has already been posted in this thread via my blog but... I'll type it again.

    I've owned 3 Hard Dog rollbars. They are perfectly fine rollbars and are designed well. I do not have the opinion that their harness bar is designed well, but I'm not a structural engineer. I wanted to run a harness bar in my own car and that's what put me on the path of replacing my HDHCDDM2. I wanted an integrated harness bar, not an afterthought.

    Moti's bars are amazing. They're better than an inexpensive car like a Miata deserves. Removing an HDHC and installing a BBFW GT3 screamed this out. Every possible thing was better. Every angle, every mounting plate... everything fit. PERFECTLY. The GT3 sat totally flush and flat in Sharka's cabin. The HDHC that came out was never flush which I assumed was from the chassis being tweaked a bit... which I now believe is wrong. The jig or bender was just not quite having a good day when they did my HDHC.

    Welds - Moti has taken some flack for them. They're not the most beautiful ever. So what? They're full penetration. The bar has no weakness.



    Seatbelts - they work just fine. I've had no complaints, however, I run harnesses all the time now.



    Harness bar - it's integrated and full width. It allows for full seat recline.



    Price - Moti charges a fair price in my opinion. He's keeping a roof over his head and metal prices have gone waaaay up.

    As a small business owner, the matter of price niggling is a really sensitive topic for me. I've just deleted a paragraph of me ranting about price vs value and my gauges. But it comes down to - do you like the work of the shop in question, or do you not? I personally love Moti's work and think the price he's charging is extremely reasonable.

    I would buy from him again.

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    Antonio (12-06-2018),Greasemonkey2000 (12-05-2018),MaRcOp01o (12-06-2018),Midtenn86 (12-06-2018),oldgrayleather (12-06-2018),Roadster7 (12-06-2018),speedypenguin (12-06-2018),Warhammer (12-06-2018)

  16. #42
    3,000 rpm - starting to feel the power Roadster7's Avatar
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    What he said. Only correction I'll make is about seat travel - you do not retain full seat travel, not with the NB version with integrated harness bar. I sit roughly 4" closer now than I did before, but it wasn't a problem getting used to. I'm comparing this too having no bar at all, and I don't know if you have even less seat travel with the HD harness bar, I'll let someone else clear that up.

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    MLambert19 (12-06-2018)

  18. #43
    MODIFY EVERYTHING MiataQuest's Avatar
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    Between the two, which one allows the most rearward seat travel and headroom?

    A rollbar is high on my list after I get my AR5 transmission installed so I can do a track day and the Tail of the Dragon next summer.

  19. #44
    5,000 rpm - there be torque here! Greasemonkey2000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roadster7 View Post
    What he said. Only correction I'll make is about seat travel - you do not retain full seat travel, not with the NB version with integrated harness bar. I sit roughly 4" closer now than I did before, but it wasn't a problem getting used to. I'm comparing this too having no bar at all, and I don't know if you have even less seat travel with the HD harness bar, I'll let someone else clear that up.
    On the seats, Adam has Lotus seats so they will obviously be able to have more travel since they have such thin seat backs(his is a NB GT3). What seats do you have, stock?
    '01 NB2 aka MisF1re: http://mazdaroadster.net/showthread....218#post207218
    '97 M aka Warbird, gone but not forgotten: http://mazdaroadster.net/showthread....B&goto=newpost
    Instagram: @greasemonkey2000

  20. #45
    3,000 rpm - starting to feel the power MLambert19's Avatar
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    I plan on running stock seats, so I won't get full recline with the BBFW bar unless I were to use a plastic rear window and an NA bar... which isn't the case (I plan on a new glass rear Robbins top).

    So, the breakdown is this: $640 shipped for the HD M2HCHT or $1315 shipped for the BBFW NB SD.

    The NB SD presents better visibility, a more elegant seat belt solution, and an integrated harness bar (which at this juncture, I don't need, and will restrict seat travel).

    The M2HCHT restricts corner visibility a bit, might create some seat belt issues, but will permit full seat travel and tilt. I can add a harness bar at a later time if I need it for $185 shipped (I suppose a true Apples-to-apples comparison could include that cost).

    I love the look of the single diagonal, I love the seat belt tab relocation on Moti's bar. I like the welds on Hard Dog's stuff more, and they present a logical argument about the angle of the diagonals. The price bugs me, but it's not the deciding factor.

    Thank you all for the input. That said, I'm still torn. I might legitimately coin-toss this one.

    On another note: I drove a 320whp 6.0L NB2 today... and it was everything I hoped it would be. I need to get my new-to-me NA to Al so we can have it ready for spring.

    -Matt

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