Clutch question

[Fiddlesticks]

In the past few days I've driven several different NA, NB Miatas.

Obviously, each is a little different.

My question is what "should" the clutch feel like? Short contact point? Long ?

If one was to put in a new (oem) (no mods) clutch how would it drive?

[Cxmoney]

Depends really. I set mine up to have an extremely short contact point by adjusting the clutch pedal. Just my preference.

[Fiddlesticks]

Part 2- what's the cost of a new clutch? (Ballpark)

[Fiddlesticks]

Depends really. I set mine up to have an extremely short contact point by adjusting the clutch pedal. Just my preference.

I prefer short. Drove one that was very long and didn't care for it.

[Cxmoney]

It is very easy to adjust if you find a car with a long one, you just have to undo a bolt and mess with a bolt that goes to the clutch from under the dash. Took me about 5 minutes

[kung fu jesus]

A clutch job would be around 400-600, half is labor. If it is a reputable shop and has done a rear main seal on a Miata, have them do that while they are in there.

[oldgrayleather]

A clutch job would be around 400-600, half is labor. If it is a reputable shop and has done a rear main seal on a Miata, have them do that while they are in there.

So Murphy's law.. got the hardtop after a long wait just in time for rain and then my clutch goes at ~65k miles. From all your collective wisdom going to try an ACT HD clutch and light weight chromoly flywheel. A few questions...

How many hours is reasonable for an install. Shop quote said 4.5 which is more than I'd thought. At $100/hr adds up quick without parts. (I wanted to do this myself but with lots of work travel then Palooza will be impossible :(

For spec parts shouldn't a shop be able to purchase at a discount vs what I'd pay from any online supplier?

Finally, kits don't come with master/ slave cylinder replacement but guessing I should have those sorted at the same time. Plus a braided clutch line? The rear main seal is already planned.

Thanks!

[kung fu jesus]

Bummer. 65k is really short.

4.5 is probably the book rate for the shop. At $100/hour I will guess that is a specialty shop? That seems a bit high, but SOCAL LOL! :/

A shop *may* have a little discount, but the proliferation of internet shopping, not much. I do buy some parts through a friend with a Worldpac account, so I can see the brands and prices available, but usually the wiggle room depends on brand, performance, etc.

Kits do not come with the hydraulics unless a vendor packages them that way. Some vendors package the clutch and FW together, and the hydraulics separately. A clutch kit generally includes the pressure plate, disc, TO bearing, and sometimes the alignement tool and pilot bearing for the FW.

I would reach out to KINOD (I'm sure you already have, I have yet to look at my FB this morning). Those guys should have some contacts or even have the capability to do the job for you (pros).

Good luck!

[oldgrayleather]

Thanks Steven - appreciate all the insights! :bow:


Bummer. 65k is really short. Well, I did teach my 16 year old to drive stick on it :teehee:



SOCAL LOL! :/ No kidding (damned sunshine tax ;)


I've specced the clutch package and it doesn't come with hydraulics/ clutch line but not sure if those should be done while they're at it?

PS: checking with KINOD now too, started here as there's so much info/ feedback to dig through it seemed the right place to start.

[kung fu jesus]

*I* would replace the clutch hydraulics, cheap insurance your clutch will break in properly. The master is ~$50 and consists of two nuts, a brake line fitting, and an electrical clip. Super easy to bench bleed. I also recommend the longer clutch line, like 949 and few other vendors sell.

[Rogue]

Clutch is slipping? Leaking oil?
I have had a few Miata's come in the shop for a clutch, and it was only hydraulics.
If it is the clutch, then make sure to change the "Rear Main Seal"

[oldgrayleather]

Clutch is slipping? Leaking oil?
I have had a few Miata's come in the shop for a clutch, and it was only hydraulics.
If it is the clutch, then make sure to change the "Rear Main Seal"

Thanks. Rear mail seal would be planned but now I'm questioning the validity of my assessment (and appetite to upgrade to the ACT clutch and lighter weight flywheel). Haven't noticed any leaking oil.

A couple weeks ago my NA started slipping when going from 3rd to 4th (into 4th and rev's shoot up with no acceleration then would catch). Same from 4th to 5th. Recently has been more pronounced and happening more often including from 2nd. Initially was worse when cold (!?) but then consistent. Was going up a steep hill on Monday and over a small ramp/ lip into a parking garage and 1st would only grind with no movement whatsoever. Felt lucky to get it home (mostly downhill) and then started digging through resources to confirm my suspicion. Found some other threads that reported almost the same problem/ happening the same way. Reports of replacing the hydraulics first but problems persisted and only got fixed with a new clutch. Perhaps premature in my assessment (or too trusting of other's remedies). Most tests I'd heard was to check acceleration in-gear in 4th which my car fails every time.

Appreciate you guys jumping in with more experienced insights!

[kung fu jesus]

When I have experienced failing hydraulics, the 2-3 and 4-5 shifts get crunchy under moderate-heavy acceleration. The clutch will often chatter when warm. The moment of inertia is also a little inconsistent in the pedal.

Regarding clutch and flywheel, that is a bit more subjective. I went from my ACT extreme clutch to an OEM replacement. Night and day. I also moved from the aluminum 8# to 10# chromoly. The release of the pressure plate of the OEM unit was slower and I didn't like that for faster shifting in spirited driving situations and track. It was more streetable for everyday. For flywheels, I think anything in the 10-14# range is a nice improvement. The light flywheel(s) have been among my favorite modifications for the anemic 1.6 in terms of pure driving fun.

When the engine shat, I looked into replacing the clutch. I was considering the stage 2 Exedy, but I had a hard time justifying the value and performance. I had good experience with ACT clutches, so I chose the 1.6 HD version. I like some extra headroom for future mods and options. I just didn't want the extreme's pedal. The HD has been good so far.

I know you didn't expect the clutch failure, and schedules as they are, it can be difficult to sequester test drives in other cars to sample different versions. I would suggest you read up on feedback from other owners and weigh them against your own preferences and plans. I think Goodwin does a nice job offering honest feedback for the products they sell, so that's a good start.

Apologies for the long-winded replies, I hope they offer some merit. :)

[TNRooster3]

Ok folks we are trying to get Rooster's motor swapped and my friend Jeff is doing the swap and has a question. I asked this in Rooster's build thread and no one has seen it yet I guess, anyway the car had a heavy duty clutch and it went bad and we are replacing it with a stock clutch and Rooster has a light flywheel that looks to be in good shape. Will there be any problems with a stock clutch and light flywheel, should we replace the flywheel while we have it down? Track Dog Racing added their Stainless Steel clutch line, is there anything else other than the main seal?

[kung fu jesus]

No issues with the light FW and a stock clutch. Make sure to inspect the FW for hot spots, damage, maybe flapper wheel or lightly scuff the friction surface. Replace if it looks damaged, cracked, etc. I like to replace the pilot bearing on the FW if you're going to remove it. The rear seal on the trans is nice to replace because you have the opportunity to do so with the driveshaft removed. There is a thin paper gasket on the front of the trans, but if it isn't leaking, I don't change it. The only other item I haven't mentioned is replacing the starter. If it seems extraneous, leave it alone. I replaced mine when I had the engine and trans out because it was the original with 180k on it and it was easy to get to and replace in that situation.

[TNRooster3]

I'll tell Jeff, he was already going to do the main seal and I think he said something about the pilot bearing being replaced while it was apart, he wasn't sure about the light flywheel matching a stock clutch, he mainly restores classic cars and don't think that comes up. When Rooster first had problems last year the starter was replaced then. Thanks- Ray


No issues with the light FW and a stock clutch. Make sure to inspect the FW for hot spots, damage, maybe flapper wheel or lightly scuff the friction surface. Replace if it looks damaged, cracked, etc. I like to replace the pilot bearing on the FW if you're going to remove it. The rear seal on the trans is nice to replace because you have the opportunity to do so with the driveshaft removed. There is a thin paper gasket on the front of the trans, but if it isn't leaking, I don't change it. The only other item I haven't mentioned is replacing the starter. If it seems extraneous, leave it alone. I replaced mine when I had the engine and trans out because it was the original with 180k on it and it was easy to get to and replace in that situation.

[HarryB]

Since this topic has traction, I would like to ask about my throwout bearing; should I keep the (used for approx 10k) ACT one or should I go with a new OEM/otherwise?

[kung fu jesus]

I didn't change the pilot on mine, it had similar mileage as yours. Hoping it doesn't bite me someday. :)

[Rogue]

I didn't change the pilot on mine, it had similar mileage as yours. Hoping it doesn't bite me someday. :)

Who hacked KFJ, he "Full Steve's" everything! :p
He'll change the Electrolite in the battery.

I always change the Pilot Bearing and Rear Main, but I will reuse a Throwout Bearing since they rarely fail.

[kung fu jesus]

Sometimes you have to weigh what you would like to do versus the patience and generosity of friends helping you with the larger repairs. :)