Ultimate Miata Coilovers Thread, what are you using?

[Phatmiata]

https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8685/16612175558_df3ea1cc50_h.jpg

https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8615/16592462337_005a311c99_h.jpg

Jet's Master Spec, NoPro PVC Swift, HKS Hipermax Performer, Tanabe Sus-Tec Pro, Maruha BC High Rate, Maruha BC Sport, Maruha Street BC, Dog Fight Pro, Car Make Corns N1 Swift, Nielex Swift Comfort, Blitz Spec-DSC, Blitz ZZ-R, Tein Basis, Tein Flex, Tein Street Advance, Tein Monoflex, FM Vmaxx, Buddy Club Pro Spec, Murakami Motors Aragosta, Arrive Koni, Brightning, FM Xtreme, Garage Hundred-One Ohlins MH-P, Fortune Auto 510, Bilstein PSS9, JIC FLT Twins, JIC FLT-AS, OAS ZC-II Ohlins, Biot Evo de leger, Tuckin-99 RS, KW Varient 1, Fightex, Aragosta Standard Comfort, Zeal Function-X, Alpha Rigid a-Spec Gymkhana, Auto-Exe Sports Tunable, Section Spec RM-A8, Cusco Street Zero-Red, Cusco Zero 2-E, Cusco Street, Cusco Zero-A, Racing Gear JTC-N1 Circuit, Fat Cat Motorsports Elite, FM Afco Coilovers, Xida CS, Ohlins DFV, Ohlins Road & Track, Aragosta Type-S, KYB Spec-TR, Bridgestone NPG, Car Service Hero, Olive Ball Sachs, CP Kawagoe Z-sp, Pitcrew Racing Original Dumper CRUX, Skunk2 Pro-ST, Ground Control, ISC Suspension N1 Basic, CST-Doall, FK Stealth Basic Type-1, ZSS-Rigel, OXYZ RS-Type, Largus Spec-RS, KBEE, Racing Gear-HS, Kind Techno Structure SC, Overtech, Raceland, Megan EZ streets, Stance GR+, EMUSA-Type RS, Yonaka Spec2, D2-Racing RS, K-Sport Slide Kontrol Drift, BC Racing, Godspeed Mono SS, CX Racing, Rokkor, NNR Performance, Function and Form F2 Type 1, (I am sure I missed more, but you get the idea)

Are you confused yet? Why so many different coilover suspensions???

What are you using?


Because there are TOO many coilovers to choose from out there, lets help each other out and post up what we are all using and why.

Rules: You MUST list what the PRIMARY use of your Miata coilover is for from one of the categories below

Please post your Generation Miata ie; NA, NB, NC, ND

If you know the spring rates then please post them as well, and post what you like or dislike about your setup; ie price, ride quality, options, etc.

Track Car Coilover (Mostly Racing, AutoCross and Racetrack)

Street Car Coilover (Mostly Street, and Weekend Racing)

Slammed Car Coilover (Only Street, for Lowering only)


No flames, just facts, and just post what you have, photos are a plus but optional.

[kung fu jesus]

JIC FLT-A2s. Aluminum bodied monotube dampers with 9kg/F, 6.5kg R. They were on my top 3 list when I was shopping and Steve at Planet Miata had a new set for a price I couldn't refuse. I use them for street/track but they are definitely more track oriented.

http://mazdaroadster.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=13780&stc=1

[geffrocks86]

1991 BRG Street Car: Tein Flex 9k/6k

1990 Track Car : Xida-S 800 in/lbs 500 in/lb with (dual) helper springs

They replaced an old Koni Street Coilover that I purchased from Goodwin Racing in 2002 or so:

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b235/geffrocks_86/SouthSanFrancisco-20130207-00461_zps7e7a943e.jpg (http://s20.photobucket.com/user/geffrocks_86/media/SouthSanFrancisco-20130207-00461_zps7e7a943e.jpg.html)

[Martin]

Strictly a street car. I'm using Koni Yellows (set to full soft) and Ground Control sleeves with Eibach springs.


No pics of this setup on my car because it's disgusting under there :fp:

[Satisaii]

Track cars have the Xida 800/500
Street car has the Xida CS with 500/300
Other street car has some one off prototypes from a couple of years back. Unknown spring rates. Rides nice.

[RotorNutFD3S]

My '99 is in the street car category with Tein Flex coilovers with 9/6kg F/R springs. Bought them lightly used for a deal I couldn't pass up and I wasn't happy with the Bilstein PSS coilovers that were on the car at the time. The Teins ride very well even on the most bumpy of roads, but after getting to ride in a few Miatas with Xidas I know what my next coilover choice is going to be.

Here's when I got them:

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7007/6763876327_3762a44e2b_b.jpg

[Tkblazer]

94 street car currently on jic flt-tar coilovers 12k/9k and they are fairly stiff for driving around. I'm thinking about getting some softer swift springs for them since I don't really track the car. Got a killer deal on them so I can't really complain. Been thinking of switching over to xida's though

[Dandy]

Put together for Street, Touring, and spirited back road driving:



• Bilstein R-Package shocks


• Eibach Springs 400lbs front, 300lbs rear (7" front and 8" rear)


• Ground Control sleeves


• Ground Control spring locators/isolators


• Fatcat Motorsports shock mounts, MCU bushings, f36mm/r46mm bumpstops


• Racing Beat 28.575 mm - 1.25" wall tubular adjustable front sway bar


• Front sway bar urethane bushings & brackets


• Front sway bar brace hardware


• Mazdaspeed 14mm rear sway bar


• Rear sway bar urethane bushings


• 949 Racing - SuperMiata - front and rear adjustable end links



All of the components above were chosen together to give the desired result.

[Demon I Am]

My NA has been on DGR brand coilovers for the last 3 or so years. 7k front, 8k rear. Company offers a Street, and a Track setup, and also options for different springs (Road Magnet brand). They are 30 way adjustable.

They are a very good ride. Setting them on the stiffest setting is not my cup of tea for the pothole littered roads of NC. I usually keep them between 1/3 soft to full soft, and they are great for spirited daily use.

[wannafbody]

Track car
SD Bilsteins
Coilover sleeve
550F/350R

This is a great somewhat budget setup.

[CooperD]

Street Setup (canyons and weekend track)

Fat Cat Motorsports custom valved Bilsteins (early edition, non adjustable). 425/350 springs.

Racing beat tubular front bar and end links. Stock rear bar.

Shaikh spec'd them after a consultation, and I love the setup.

[modernbeat]

Running Koni 2812 on my streetcar. 700f 450r Hyperco springs. Racing Beat front NA8 Racing bar (1.125" dia, 3/16" wall), stock rear bar.

http://i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv198/aaa-111/XP_Miata/weight2812.jpg

http://i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv198/aaa-111/blackcubed/SNC11699.jpg

[wannafbody]

That's a hardcore street setup.

[etikoner]

Buddy Club Racing Spec Dampers with Stance top hats, swift 6" springs all around (9k front 7k rear) and fcm bump stops.

Oem rear sway bar and running no sway bar up front at the moment. Feels decently comfortable except for very little droop travel over big sharp bumps.

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b242/etikoner/5C1511A6-874B-4A89-B241-ADF87167CC97_zps1lrsfwml.jpg

[91BRG]

TEIN MONO-SPORT (F:10kg/R:8kg). Used for street car. Very bumpy even on softest settings.

http://i.imgur.com/HfKd6Uw.jpg

[Phatmiata]

^^ 91BRG, do you think they are harder ride due to the 10k spring rates? maybe a lower rated spring would help? unless you dont mind the ride. My last set was Tanabe Coilovers pro race and hating hitting bumps with them, but they worked great at autoX

[The Driver]

Fat Cat Motorsports, which uses Bilstein shocks. 600/375 Springs. Occasional track car (as in no more than twice a year) and good weather daily driver.

[Satisaii]

http://i758.photobucket.com/albums/xx225/satisaii/XIDA%20Active_zpszxytycmw.jpg (http://s758.photobucket.com/user/satisaii/media/XIDA%20Active_zpszxytycmw.jpg.html)

Since this is the ultimate coilover thread...

These are the latest generation, highest option SuperMiata XIDA's by 949Racing, built to spec by Hanchey Vehicle Tech using Tractive components. They are 3-way remotes with Active Controlled Electronics (ACE).

Quoting Emilio

-GPS map based tuning for rebound and compression
-Active preload adjustment
-Accelerometer based reactive (pre-programmed response) or semi-active (logic circuit).
-Smartphone UI. Potentially using the accelerometer in the phone. I have seen a video of a test rig with this tech. Friggin awesome.
-Individual damping control. This means potentially bumping compression on the outside damper, tightening rebound on the inside damper or adjust transient cross weights to improve turn in response.

For most users, it would simply be a little box with accelerometer triggered "maps", such as soft, sport, race. Base maps loaded when you buy the kit. You chuck it into a turn and the shocks react before the car has rotated 1°. User can increase or decrease damping setting in each mode through the 4 buttons on the little control box.

Advanced users would get a box they could plug a lap top and standalone GPS into. That creates a whole other level of specific handling maps. My guess is that this type of control would only be used by a tiny fraction of users. It would make a typical 4 way adjustable coilover look rudimentary by comparison.

[Martin]

:shock:

[Dave737]

^^Well said.^^

[91BRG]

^^ 91BRG, do you think they are harder ride due to the 10k spring rates? maybe a lower rated spring would help? unless you dont mind the ride. My last set was Tanabe Coilovers pro race and hating hitting bumps with them, but they worked great at autoX

Hey Phat it probably is the spring rates. I was maybe thinking of changing them to swift 7k/5k springs but see how we go. the bumpiness does make the car feel more serious so i sorta like it lol.

[Tkblazer]

Lowest you should.be able to run is 8/6 without a revalve.

[etikoner]

My friends mono flex seem very bumpy when I took it out for a spin.. Maybe going to a 7kg rear swift spring can help. Also bump stop tuning... But mostly the bumpy ride feeling can come from the limited droop travel and not having the dampers corner weighed.

I'm fond of how my suspension rides on full soft now with 9/7 springs, the small spring rate spread is generally frowned upon, but it allows the rear suspension to keep up with the front on some bumps. I just would like to trim the rear bump stops some more and get my suspension all tied up together with an NB front bar.

Also, that xida/tractive set up is so nuts.

[theothersawyer]

JIC FLT-A2s. Aluminum bodied monotube dampers with 9kg/F, 6.5kg R. They were on my top 3 list when I was shopping and Steve at Planet Miata had a new set for a price I couldn't refuse. I use them for street/track but they are definitely more track oriented.

http://mazdaroadster.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=13780&stc=1

This is what I use as well! Super happy with them! I bought them off of my sister when she sold her MSM!

[Tkblazer]

Wow more people with jic here than tein

[johnfett]

Is anyone running Ohlins on here??? I am looking at coilovers in the future this year and did not realize how many companies make them for the Miata !

[theothersawyer]

I know of a few people with Ohlins and they love them!

[etikoner]

I think we've come to the conclusion that Ohlins are a really entry level high end damper system.

I've heard they're nice and comfy, but they lack travel in the rear when compared to Xidas.

Also, I'm pretty interested in seeing how FM's King shocks coilovers turn out.

[speedypenguin]

Tein Street Flex with 7kg Front and 6kg Rear on my NA8. Swapped out my old Flyin' Miata VMaxx coilovers for these since the FM were a bit lacking on the track.

Said FM VMaxx coilovers are now on my NB, which will see autocross this year (slim chance of seeing track).

[chiefmg]

I have had three different sets of coilovers on my car. It had Bilstein PSS when I bought it, they rode nicely and handled well. When I attended The Mitty in 2009, I bought a set of VMaxx from FM at their booth. Handling improved, ride was stiffer but not objectionably so. Most recently I bought a set of lightly used Ohlins DFV. Just installed them on Friday and have driven less than 100 miles so far.

Spring rates of the DFVs are 7kg front/4kg rear. I set them up per the instructions as far as spring preload and height setting, I may lower the car a little bit before I get it aligned. As it needs an alignment I can't speak to ultimate handling but it has improved over the VMaxx. Some of this I attribute to the dampers absorbing bumps which allows the car to stay more planted. Ride comfort has improved as well, on my travels yesterday bumps and jolts that were jarring with the VMaxx were taken in stride (my wife even noticed the improved ride). I would classify the ride as firm but supple. As of now I have not noticed any issues with the small amount of rear suspension travel that has been noted with these coilovers. Overall I am very happy with them.

[HarryB]

So, after I have spent quite a few time trying to find out a reasonable solution (and spending countless hours reading about revalved Bilstein coilovers), I decided on building a Bilstein setup for my daily NB2; something relatively comfy but able to handle potholes and B-roads. 350/250 is what I have also calculated to be ideal for the use I intend on doing. I was planning on building "coilovers" using AllStar sleeves out of some HardS Bilsteins I got, but since I won't be needing height adjustment (which is "wrong" to do by adding preload eitherway), I am also looking in lowering springs. As already mentioned, the most important parameter here are the bumpstops; my plan is to manufacture extended top hats for both ends of the car, extended to an amount equal to the lowering of the car, so that both the dampers and the bump stops do not "know" that the car is lowered. Fine-tuning for the engagement point of the bumpstop could be done by adding shims on top of those (between the top mount and the bump stop). FCM solution seems neat as well, but a fair bit more expensive; might go that way in the future. Another issue with those spring rates, and especially if lowered, is the "deck height" of the springs (the height of a fully compressed spring that is). If bumpstop length is not taken into account and the bumpstops used are too short, "spring binding" can occur, which has been reported to blow circlips off dampers. This is the main reason I want to stay with stock bumpstops, offset by the amount of lowering by using those extended top hats...

Any thoughts/comments/insight on this?

[Circuit Dreaming]

That sounds like it will be a very comfortable setup, and would be great for what you are looking for. Tein Basis is also a very affordable, comfortable suspension that would be much less of a hassle to assemble.

[Circuit Dreaming]

I have owned Fortune Auto 500 coilovers with 8k front/6k rear spring rates for over a year now.

Usage: I drive on the street mostly as it is my daily driver at the moment, but I try to take it to race tracks near Austin 2-3 times a month. I used to autocross all of the time, but as soon as I started road racing I decided I never wanted to do that again.

Driving Impressions: I really like these coilovers. They are comfortable on the street while still providing great performance for performance driving. I have never ridden in a Miata with Ohlins, Xidas, or any of the REALLY expensive coilovers, so I suppose I cannot really say how good of suspension this is. However I can tell you the second you get on a race track, windy road, or autocross course you never notice any bumps or imperfections in the road. They absorb it all well enough to where I never have to compensate my steering for bumpers or things like that. The car feels planted enough that you only have to focus on steering, braking, and throttle control 99% of the time. With the stock sway bars, 205/50 Kumho tires, stock NB2 body bracing, and a hard dog roll bar the car feels extremely neutral. I can take carousel-like turns on race tracks and confidently rotate the car by letting off the throttle. Every movement is smooth, responsive, and predictable. Like I said, I have never been in a Miata with really expensive suspension, so I cannot say for sure that this really is a super amazing suspension setup. Ignorance is bliss I suppose, but I can tell you I love this suspension, and it is certainly not holding me back during performance driving.

[Phatmiata]

finally I can contribute to this thread.

Here is mine!

Street Car Coilover (Mostly Street, and some Weekend Racing)

Maruha BC Street Coilovers
Running NB bump stops and NB tophats
Maruha Spring rates are 6 kg, 4 kg.

http://i.imgur.com/r8uKUeT.jpg
more info here
http://www.maruhamotors.co.jp/miata/parts/bcss.html

[etikoner]

That's gonna ride soft as a pillow :slayer:

[druz]

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-QXUAwc2VzCM/VY3KGpy5tjI/AAAAAAAACH8/MUrXF_R7NCo/s800/upload_-1.jpg

700/400 in/lbs or ~12.5/7 kg/mm. They're as nice as everyone says :mrgreen:

[modernbeat]

I've had a set of MCS TT2 double adjustables waiting for me to make spherical top mounts. They will be going on in a few weeks and I'll pull off the "temporary" Koni 2812s.

http://vorshlag.smugmug.com/Product-Pictures/MCS-TT1-Shocks/i-qxLzCDg/0/XL/MCSMiata_DSF1743%20copy-XL.jpg

[Dandy]

I've had a set of MCS TT2 double adjustables waiting for me to make spherical top mounts. They will be going on in a few weeks and I'll pull off the "temporary" Koni 2812s.


Interesting. Try and post up a review if you can as I am sure most of us are not familiar with this set up.

[Corifto]

BC Coilovers
-Extreme Drop variant(Shorter body, different valving)
-10kF/6kR

http://i.imgur.com/ogGcwaIl.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/wHG99jEl.jpg

[modernbeat]

Interesting. Try and post up a review if you can as I am sure most of us are not familiar with this set up.

While they aren't on the car, I worked with Lex at MCS to have them built the same dimensions that I had my Koni 2812s built (full compression without bottoming out the shock, while still has enough droop), and had Maxcy (guy who did the development for the Xida) set up the valving. This is about the 150th pair of MCS I've worked with. They are the successor to the old Moton and we have had enormous success with them on our Pikes Peak car and our NASA Time Trial car.

[Nitori]

I can also chime in about the Maruha coilovers, and living with them on a DD. I have to run mine pretty bonkers high, at least by slammage standards. Think almost stock R package- a touch over 12.75" front, a little under 13.25" rear. I still manage to scrape on the absurd speed bumps and driveway entrances that are abound in Pennsylvania. :bop:

That aside, I'm really really happy with them. The 6k/4k rate is maybe a bit soft for those looking for track monsters, but for a DD it's that perfect balance between "nice and snappy handling" and "doesn't make my butt pucker in anticipation of bumps":lol: I originally ran the dampers at 7 clicks up from soft front, 5 clicks up from soft rear, but moved the rears up to 7 to keep it from pushing too much. It's a great setup for a street driven NA, plus it's got that JDM swag going for it. I appreciate the fact that it uses NB tophats too. Paired with Maruha's "Mixed" control arm bushing set that's part OE, part Mazdaspeed makes the whole package something you could easily live with for long trips.

Anyways, if you've got any specific questions feel free to ask.

[91BRG]

Just want to update my impressions of TEIN MONOSPORT coilovers (F:10kg R:8kg) that I got this year. I've run them since January so I've had adequate time to run them in. In my first few posts I said they were really bumpy, well stupid me I had the dampers set to stiff on one corner without realising. Yes, I had a blonde moment there and I ran like this for the better part of 2 months without noticing just thinking, damn these shocks are bumpy.

Well everything has been set up correctly for the last 3 months now and I can say without a doubt I am very satisfied with the set up. Cornering is much improved as expected but the weight transfer between front and rear has been the most noticeable. The car just doesn't dip or squat during hard braking/accell.

Ride comfort is very good considering these are monotube coilovers. You will feel more of the road surface than std setup but at the same time its not bouncy, the suspension travels and incredible feedback will be delivered to you. Though I will say I run these on FULL soft setting for the street, as even 5 clicks to the right make the car too bumpy for me.

My set up is with std swaybars (F:19mm R:12mm) and racing beat adjustable end links. I don't feel like I need to upgrade the swaybars yet as the roll stiffness is quite good enough already, though I feel it has more tendency to oversteer now than understeer, it can be quite fun sometimes:D

Another thing is with these coilovers I've pretty much approached the grip limit of my yokohama c.drive tires. Unfortunately in oz there's not much good rubber you can get in 14s so it'll have to do until I can find something better. On the street it is adequate but the limits are easily reached on a winding road.

Ride height is 12.5" from centre of hub to fender, and I am using flyin miata wheel alignment settings.

Would I buy them again or recommend them to anyone? ABSOLUTELY

obligatory lowered pic

http://i.imgur.com/XHKKyjy.jpg

[Fishbulb]

That looks killer! Do you have any links to high res pics?

Also - what rims are those? They look great on the BRG.

Thank yoU!

obligatory lowered pic

http://i.imgur.com/XHKKyjy.jpg[/QUOTE]

[NCGreasemonkey]

Don't yell at me if I missed a post saying; "Never buy these, they are worthless, they will get you killed....". I haven't seen anyone post anything up. Has anyone run these?

CXRacing Damper CoilOvers Suspension Kit for 90-98 MAZDA Miata MX-5

http://www.ebay.com/itm/CXRacing-Damper-CoilOvers-Suspension-Kit-for-90-98-MAZDA-Miata-MX-5/161492428527?_trksid=p2050601.c100085.m2372&_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1% 26asc%3D20140211132617%26meid%3D94fc4e6b6f5a48d7be c0190f112295c7%26pid%3D100085%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D4%2 6sd%3D111623270720%26clkid%3D1285447617535717039&_qi=RTM2067269

They have a great feedback score but no one has posted reviews.

[Greasemonkey2000]

For the first year of ownership of a miata i read up on different coilover options and right away i knew i didn't want a 'cheap' setup i would end up hating and subsequently have to replace. At the time really the only real quality options in the sub $2k price range, imho, was Ohlins, Bilstein's, Flyin Miata's AFCO's, 949 Racing's Xida's and Fat Cat Motorsport's Elite's. I started reading all the reviews and relevant information i could find on these previously mentioned options and narrowed it down to Xida's and Fat Cat Motorsport's Elite's.

This was not an easy decision but ultimately what swayed me was Shaikh's willingness to have countless discussions with me about not just what he sold but suspensions in general and i felt if i was going to spend almost $2k on coilovers i wanted someone as committed as he was to helping people understand what would meet their needs even if it wasn't his product. I went in knowing the big glaring complaint was product turn around/delivery time which Shaikh himself admitted was an area that needed improvement.

So after, iirc, approximately 12 week wait i received my Fat Cat Motorsports Elite 2040 coilovers:

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b261/superhonda02/97%20M%20Edition/parts%20bought%20and%20sold/001_zps9a87603a.jpg (http://s21.photobucket.com/user/superhonda02/media/97%20M%20Edition/parts%20bought%20and%20sold/001_zps9a87603a.jpg.html)



Before with stock 97k mile suspension at approximately 13.5":
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b261/superhonda02/97%20M%20Edition/photography/011_zpsf3933acc.jpg (http://s21.photobucket.com/user/superhonda02/media/97%20M%20Edition/photography/011_zpsf3933acc.jpg.html)


After with Fat Cat Motorsports Elite 2040 coilovers at approximately 12.25"F/12.5"R:
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b261/superhonda02/97%20M%20Edition/suspension/020_zpsc6f19e13.jpg (http://s21.photobucket.com/user/superhonda02/media/97%20M%20Edition/suspension/020_zpsc6f19e13.jpg.html)


I was absolutely in love with how much better it looked, handled and drove. I drove it for over a year and a half and put approximately 10k miles on it and it handles just as well as it did the day it was installed, well even better after a decent alignment.

Here is a breakdown and review of my current FCM 2040 coilover setup:
I now have approx. 10k miles(@107,700 miles and installed @ 97,730 on 05-10-14) and can say that I have enough time on them to give a proper review.


Year/package: '97/M Edition
Estimated new price of setup: Flyin Miata Frame rails $180.47, Flyin Miata Butterfly brace $200(used), Fat Cat Motorsports coilovers $1977, Racing Beat tubular front sway bar w/brace $188, 949 Racing SuperMiata end links $139.90, Beatrush PPF brace $151, 949 Racing rear subframe brace $100, GarageStar fender braces $200, GarageStar derlin door bushings $55= $3190.37 (prices include S&H)
Shocks: Bilstein w/ custom FCM valving
Springs: 375 lbs 8''F/325 lbs 8''R
Bumpstops: FCM 39 white 200 in/lbs
Top hats: FCM
Front sway bar: RB tubular 1.125''/28.575mm
Rear sway bar: stock
Ride height: 12.25''hub 4 3/8" pinch F /12.5''hub 4 5/8'' pinch R
Diff: Torsen
Alignment: F: +4.7°caster,-2.4° camber,0° total toe, R: -2.3° camber
0° total toe
Wheel size: 15x8 +25 Konig Flatout 12.4lbs
Tire size and model: Hankook Ventus RS-3 225/45/15
Amount of time with specific setup: 1 year, 6 months/10k miles
Car condition description: dents and dings but overall good condition
Area of primary use and brief description of typical road condition: DD


Brief description of suspension reactions:
A. Pot Holes/ Bumps/ Curbing/ Dips: Very calm, collected, smooth and predictable under reasonable speed for conditions with no unusual suspension noise (no creaks like before)
B. Quick Transitions: I had slight understeer in entry slightly but this was due to lack of alignment and my previous tires that were on their way out and now is essentially gone with alignment and new tires.
C. Body Roll: minimal (even less when the height was 0.5'' F/R)
D. Other impressions: Overall I am thrilled with the results!

How about you?
Driving style: Normal driving on streets with eventual fun when I find interesting wide view corners.
Official commendation/accolades: none
Race shop/profession garage experience?: None just wrenching on my own cars for the past 15 years

Misc.
Other notes: I plan on getting an adjustable rear sway bar to render the car neutral, roll bar, various suspension urethane bushings, possibly front and rear strut tower braces.


Something has changed and it isn't Warbird or the suspension....it is my wants/needs. In the past year i started reading up on functional/street friendly aero and after discussing those with Shaikh and concluding the springs would not be up to the task at 375F/325R but the valving would still be able to handle another 100lbs/inch springs front and back, even then it was soft for aero which Shaikh made clear. In the mean time more mid tier priced coilover options came onto the scene. I kept a close eye on the different setups and any relevant information pertaining to them.

One in paticular caught my eye...FEAL's 441 coilovers. After reading feedback from ThePass aka Ryan and Lincoln Logs aka Sean and doing some reading up on Odi who runs FEAL, i was intrigued to say the least. My intrigue was further aroused by Ryan and Sean's racing exploits, which I'm very jealous of. Well then Sean aka Lincoln Logs post Maxxis will be releasing a 245 width 200tw tire in 2016....i was very excited. After making up my mind that those would be my next set of tires to replace my current set of 225/45/15 RS3's, that i love, and aero being a real possibility i decided that i either needed to get my FCM's revalved and accompanied with much stiffer springs or go another route.

I REALLY wanted to have Shaikh revalve my Elite 2040 coilovers and add the KBO feature but i couldn't justify the cost since I'm not racing and given my blue collar/middle class income. I decided to give Goodwin Racing a call and spoke with Ryan and Sean, explaining my current setup as well as my future goals/plans. They both had first hand experience with FCM's, Ryan driving a few FCM's equipped miatas and Sean having had Fat Cat Motorsports 3040 coilovers on his miata. While not bad mouthing FCM's and giving them and more importantly Shaikh the respect he has earned they both felt for my future goals/plans the FEAL's were better suited, given my currently spec'd FCM's coilovers spring rates and accompanying valving.

Well i had made up my mind....FEAL's 441 Road Race coilovers was the right option for me, all things considered. Ryan and Sean both recommended either 11k/7k or 12k/8k given my plans for even wider wheels(15"×9" or maybe even 15"×10" vs current 15"×8"), tires(245 Maxxis vs current 225 RS3's) and aero. Plus the Road Race can handle decent spring rate changes. So last week i ordered the Road Race coilovers with 12K(672lbs)/8k(448lbs) Swift springs:
http://www.good-win-racing.com/miata/images/items/Feal_NANB_Coilover_small.jpg
http://www.good-win-racing.com/Mazda-Performance-Part/61-1643.html


As a added bonus i shouldn't be out of pocket any money since i should be able to sell my Fat Cat Motorsports Elite 2040 coilovers for about what I paid for the FEAL's, that keeps my beautiful wife and wallet happy! Received them today and hopefully can install this weekend, very anxious and excited!!!!! Obviously a follow review with the FEAL's is in order. :drinkto:

[NCGreasemonkey]

Thanks for that write-up my brother in name.

I want the Olins off GWR but like you I squatted today and no golden egg popped out. I'm not going to throw money into the wind. I'll stick with my time-line and try to work in the coil-overs. Soon! The Tokico lowing set-up the other owner put on is not good on the roads under-construction around the Triad area here in NC.

[HarryB]

Kind of a thread hijack, but could not find a more appropriate thread. So, these came up for sale CHEAP locally:

https://scontent-waw1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/s480x480/12963923_10206161437063614_7682824161436732950_n.j pg?oh=cea52a93aeb780ee12d333851770b6c8&oe=57BB6D6B

https://scontent-waw1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/s480x480/13012740_10206161436423598_441131676921166220_n.jp g?oh=c36a0152c81cbd317d4ad6f67c3e9788&oe=5775D0A8

My guess is that they are PSS9 units (seller has no idea). Can anyone identify them? Also do you know what kind of damping curves do they have? I am looking in swapping springs on them as I found that the stock ones are 340ish lb/in all around, not sure if they can take it though. Also, are they serviceable like the OEM Miata units? I am thinking that this can end way cheaper than DIYing my HardS dampers, even with revalving cost factored in.

P.S. Moderators, if you think that the thread is not appropriate, please feel free to move/delete my post.

[Phatmiata]

yes looks like PSS9 to me

[kung fu jesus]

I haven't read too much about the PSS9s on Miatas, more on other cars like BMWs.

[HarryB]

Yeah, there's not much info out there. Managed to find some dyno plots, but eitherway they were gonna get rebuilt/valved/dynoed; IMO for 200EUR it did worth it for the springs alone. Funny thing is that the seller was most probably overwhelmed with the response his sale ad had (6 people in 30 mins of posting), so he deleted it. Expecting to list it again at a much higher price, we shall see.

EDIT: They are sold; the new owner beat me for just a few minutes.

[modernbeat]

...My guess is that they are PSS9 units (seller has no idea). Can anyone identify them? Also do you know what kind of damping curves do they have? I am looking in swapping springs on them as I found that the stock ones are 340ish lb/in all around, not sure if they can take it though. Also, are they serviceable like the OEM Miata units? I am thinking that this can end way cheaper than DIYing my HardS dampers, even with revalving cost factored in.

P.S. Moderators, if you think that the thread is not appropriate, please feel free to move/delete my post.

Those are PSS9. They can be identified by the use of a main linear spring and the added tender springs. They look like they are missing the adjustment knobs, but I'd suppose he took them off to remove the top mounts. Those also look like they are blown. See the oil on the shock bodies. Don't bother with them if they are worn out, which means they were heavily abused on a Bilstein.

Here is the PSS9 setup
15966

Bilstein also make a PSS version. You can identify it by the red single piece springs and no adjustment knob.

Here's the PSS setup
15965

Aside from spring rates and adjustments, the PSS9 kit is made to be run lower than the PSS kit. And it can be run MUCH lower in the rear. The PSS kits are valved fairly softly, as they are designed to be only mildly more sporting than stock. The valving doesn't support much more spring than they come with. They are useful if you have to have a TUV approved suspension, but for use in the US, I think you'd be better off doing a DIY OEM Bilstein setup. The PSS9 on the other hand does come with stiffer springs and if you are willing to give up some adjustment (because you'll have them adjusted stiffer all the time) you can run even stiffer springs. They come with hardware that makes it easy to swap springs. They still aren't a competition shock, as they are built for the Europeans idea of a very sporting street car. The adjustment isn't linear, so the first couple clicks don't make much of a change and the last couple clicks make huge changes. Bilstein changed that in the PSS10 adjuster which is really very linear, but it's rarely worth retrofitting it.

As for rebuilds, usually not worth it. These kits are often cheap enough that a full rebuild will be almost as much as a set of shocks. They can be rebuilt, but take a special nitrogen fill rig that most shock shops don't have.

[HarryB]

That was a cool piece of info, thanks! Unfortunately (or maybe not) those were sold almost instantly. 200 was CHEAP! I could have all 4 rebuilt with an extra 250, and front rates were spot on for me (343lbs, wanted to run 350), but rears seemed too firm. For reasons, Bilstein opted for a "square" setup for the PSS9, having the rears at 343lbs as well, which I wanted to replace with 250s. Oh, well...

[HarryB]

Potentially stupid question again; found a Bilstein PSS for sale locally, with the spring rates I wanted for my DIY OEM Bilstein setup, and revalved by the same guy that was going to revalve my OEM Bilsteins; any reasons I should opt out? They sell for 350, while re-valving the OEM was going to be 250, plus perches and springs.

One reason I am concerned, they came off an NA, anyone knows if they are a direct fit to NB top mounts without extended nuts?

[modernbeat]

Started building shocks out of the new Bilstein AS2 instead of the old style ASN. And started making spherical top mounts for them too.

https://vorshlag.smugmug.com/Customer-Cars/Jamie-Becks-2000-Mazda-Miata/i-Mj28CFg/0/M/B61G5046-X3-M.jpg

[HarryB]

Any Maruha coilover users here besides Randy? Would love to get some feedback on these as I am getting tempted lately...

[DarylSibcy]

Street driven car. I use the application loosely as the roads around here are dire. 1990 NA6.

Flyin Miata FOX Suspension setup.
- 550/375 Springs as standard - Keith threw in a set of 300's for me to play with. Currently running at 375/300.
- FOX Shocks - Fully adjustable.

https://www.flyinmiata.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/1800x/040ec09b1e35df139433887a97daa66f/i/m/img_3728.jpg


The amount of OEM parts used is staggering, this is a major selling point for me as if I need parts, I get them through Mazda. No having to change to another Coilover setup because things are in Japan or out of production. Plenty of suspension travel for the foul illegal roads where I live and have to drive on. I'll get some footage one day.

Currently sinning and disgracing the forum by running a ride height of 13.25"/13.5" Front/Rear. Running anything lower than 12.5" and I wouldn't get out the Avenue.

You get what you pay for. $2k total with helper springs.

[HarryB]

Sounds almost ideal for me!!

[DarylSibcy]

Sounds almost ideal for me!!

Not trying to sell them to anyone, but they're far better at dampening out the bumps than my old MeisterR setup. :slayer: But at over double the cost they damn well better (that's before tax and shipping too).

You can tell they weren't built for those on a budget; for me, that's perfect. I don't live on Cobblestone streets, at times I wish I did for a good excuse for the poor road conditions.

Any chassis stiffening mods only help to support them to do their job better too. I honestly intend on getting the chassis stitch welded one day.

On a side note; without changing the topic, I'd LOVE a 6 Point rollbar from Blackbird Fabworx, Moti won't ship though :cry2:

[HarryB]

They are a hell of a more expensive setup than Meisters; at that price range, I would love a direct comparison to Xidas or Ohlins.

Slightly offtopic but I pulled the trigger in a (used) set of Maruha coilovers; it was an "offer I could not refuse"

[Greasemonkey2000]

Not trying to sell them to anyone, but they're far better at dampening out the bumps than my old MeisterR setup. :slayer: But at over double the cost they damn well better (that's before tax and shipping too).

You can tell they weren't built for those on a budget; for me, that's perfect. I don't live on Cobblestone streets, at times I wish I did for a good excuse for the poor road conditions.

Any chassis stiffening mods only help to support them to do their job better too. I honestly intend on getting the chassis stitch welded one day.

On a side note; without changing the topic, I'd LOVE a 6 Point rollbar from Blackbird Fabworx, Moti won't ship though :cry2:
Would you mind expounding on your experience with the MeisterR's? Including the car (year), other chassis modifications, alignment numbers and wheel/tires used.


Edit: I was contemplating giving them a try since the UK reviews are so positive.

[DarylSibcy]

Would you mind expounding on your experience with the MeisterR's? Including the car (year), other chassis modifications, alignment numbers and wheel/tires used.

Indeed!! :D

I ran the car stock for the best part of a year after I bought it. At the time of purchase the car was bone stock with 60,000~ miles on the clock, drove beautifully. Started looking at aftermarket suspension options after I got underneath the car to find 3 knackered shocks with the other one on its way out. FM had the V-Maxx setup, and their Koni/Tokico setup. I'd never dealt with FM before so shipping from the States was a big thing for me, the Koni's were tempting but I didn't like not being able to adjust the 12.5"/13" ride height so I looked at UK options. The FOX setup wasn't a thing at the time.

I went with MeisterR coilovers after reading a lot of positive things on UK based forums, stating how well they performed on the bad UK roads and doubled as solid performers on the track. At the time they had their Zeta-S (6kg/5kg Front/Rear) and Zeta-R (10kg/6kg Front/Rear) models. I opted for the Zeta-S for the lower spring rate. :D

My main issues were:
- The car dealt with big bumps well but hated rough surfaces; the vibrations on rougher surfaces was a bit nasty, also got upset at higher speeds.
- I liked the ability to fine-tune the ride height, but both of my adjustment collars/tools started bending after a few uses and slowly started slipping when trying to loosen; which, trust me gets quite frustrating when your car is in the air with wheels and suspension components off :lol:
- Speed bumps were jarring and horrible to go over. To the point I actively drove around them.
- Suspension travel. My main gripe with them.. I spent most of the time on the bump stops. Changing the ride height (which was 12.75"/13.25" at the time) didn't really seem to solve anything. Understandable as the bottom half of the assembly just twisted out and extended. They began sticking and seizing after just a few months of being on the car. Probably only 1500 miles into being on the car.

When the FOX setup became an option, I spent awhile thinking about whether to risk making the switch, given the expense. After MANY emails and conversations with Keith Tanner (:bow:) I finally bit the bullet and went with the FOXs. The difference was night and day, ride height was kept the same out of curiosity. Best decision I made.

The shocks are built with lots of suspension travel in mind. Very similar to the old AFCO setup FM used to sell. The MeisterR's were built with a "be-good-at-everything" mindset, which gives them the ability to be slammed, which translates into not needing to have much suspension travel. I know it's something I bang on about, but the roads around where I live aren't the best. Some are beautifully flat, others feel like they're part of a rally stage which hopefully explains my need for more suspension travel. :lol:

The car is a 1990 NA6. The MeisterR's went on the car at the exact same time as new wheels and tyres (RPF1's 14x7 +28 w/Toyo T1R's 195/55/14 - I dropped over 4-5lbs of unsprung per corner compared to stock). Alignment numbers have always been set to FM's recommendation, which may contribute to why the FOX setup behaved so well. I got a re-alignment at both installs however, the comparison was quite fair looking back, same wheels/tyres/alignment numbers - the only thing that changed was the MesiterR's came out and the FOX's went in. The chassis has Jass Performance reinforced frame rails w/FM's butterfly brace (I drilled extra holes to line them up), Boss Frog fender braces, FM's cannon brace and FM's shock tower brace. All which were on when I had the MeisterR's.

Considering the Zeta-S springs were roughly 335/280 and the FOX's are 550/375; yet the FOX's are somehow more comfortable and a lot better behaved for daily driving and spirited driving hitting the mountain roads. I have to put effort into upsetting the FOX's whereas the MeisterR's got upset at me just driving to work on them. The new MeisterR CRD's could very well be a lot better though :shrug:

It could well be I simply chose the wrong the coilover for the application I wanted. :lol:

[Greasemonkey2000]

I really appreciate the feedback/information! :drinkto:

[HarryB]

I do not...as all these seem like more expenses for me down the road! Jokes aside, great review and these seem like exactly what I need!!!

[DarylSibcy]

Not a problem guys!! :D

I know a big issue for some is the lack of information from people who actually own or have owned a product.

Unrelated, but weirdly, I've noticed the best products almost always recommend using NB top mounts, even for NA applications. Mazda obviously introduced them for a reason. That's why FM's FOX kit for the NA is $100 more, you get the top mounts added. The Xidas from 949Racing are the same. Construction-wise they're pretty much the identical. The only difference is Emilio puts his priorities in racing, that's clear just from the abundance of choice you get with spring rates.

Hope I've helped :lol: :slayer:

[chiefmg]

I have had three different sets of coilovers on my car. It had Bilstein PSS when I bought it, they rode nicely and handled well. When I attended The Mitty in 2009, I bought a set of VMaxx from FM at their booth. Handling improved, ride was stiffer but not objectionably so. Most recently I bought a set of lightly used Ohlins DFV. Just installed them on Friday and have driven less than 100 miles so far.

Spring rates of the DFVs are 7kg front/4kg rear. I set them up per the instructions as far as spring preload and height setting, I may lower the car a little bit before I get it aligned. As it needs an alignment I can't speak to ultimate handling but it has improved over the VMaxx. Some of this I attribute to the dampers absorbing bumps which allows the car to stay more planted. Ride comfort has improved as well, on my travels yesterday bumps and jolts that were jarring with the VMaxx were taken in stride (my wife even noticed the improved ride). I would classify the ride as firm but supple. As of now I have not noticed any issues with the small amount of rear suspension travel that has been noted with these coilovers. Overall I am very happy with them.

Forgot to post it in here, but earlier last year I installed a set of Feal extended top hats in the rear to give some more travel. I haven't done any autocrossing with them as yet, but noticed more compliant suspension in the rear. With nothing to compare to I didn't realize how much I was riding on the bump stops in the rear. With the extra travel I have now the suspension soaks up bigger bumps and doesn't upset the rear.

[Roadster7]

Anyone riding on Xida GS care to give some feedback?

[kung fu jesus]

I have Xida CS with 550# F (9.8kg) and 350# R (6.2kg), helper springs, and NB top hats. I have had this set on an NA and NB. I use them for street and track. These aren't my fisrt set of coilovers, but they are my favorite. The ride is elegant; taut but compliant, never feels unsettled on uneven surfaces around town. On the track they really shine. I am very happy with them!

[949 Racing]

Anyone riding on Xida GS care to give some feedback?

https://www.miataturbo.net/build-threads-57/back-dead-build-thread-82408/page19/#post1459500



The Xida GS' are awesome. Shockingly plush on the street at full soft, and confidence inspiring on the track, would buy again. I'm not the best driver, so I can't really comment on how the combo compares to other things on the market, or whether it would have been better to run bigger sways. I'm running 5.25 inch pinch weld height and found it was a hair more body-rolly than I would have liked, but I really didn't dial them in at all. I was running 10-12/20 all weekend. I was a bit understeery, which I'm sure I could fix easily with some settings tweaks. I was running new tires I hadn't driven before (falken azenis rt615k+) that I didn't really get the pressure dialed in on, combined with new suspension I didn't play around much with, combined with multiple reliability-related issues on the track means I'll suspend judgment specifically on the GS-stock sway combo.

[Roadster7]

https://www.miataturbo.net/build-threads-57/back-dead-build-thread-82408/page19/#post1459500

Thanks! Looks like the GS aren't designed to run at my ride height (4.5"F/5.0"R), standard Xida are.

[Silver92B]

Considering Xida GS here..... I've been running with Koni Sport (yellow) dampers and Eibach lowering springs for a while. I wanted to get the car lowered a bit purely for aesthetic reasons. I also wanted to replace the stock shocks which had over 140K miles on them. I've had Koni dampers before and ran them with the stock springs on the lower perch setting. That was after an unfortunate experience with a brand of Coil Over system that shall remain unnamed.

Frankly the Koni/Eibach combination is not too bad on smooth roads and it's reasonably good for the occasional mountain run, but in the streets of Atlanta and the rural roads of GA, SC and NC, they kind of suck... The ride is harsh and handling unforgiving. I would probably suffer that but the worst thing for me is that the ride height is too low for everyday use. It's very easy to rub the bottom of the R spec front air dam.

So, what are the experiences of people running the Xida GS?

[MaRcOp01o]

I have heard great things about them and really was considering it but I really want to run Ohlins. While I am here what do you guys think of Ohlins?

[HarryB]

No. Well, yeah, they are excellent dampers but not specifically engineered to the NA/NB platform. At that price point I would be getting Xidas tbh.

[Greasemonkey2000]

What Harry said. From actual users that have used other quality Miata specific coilovers they don't seem to be impressed. I think the issue is Ohlins hasn't ever gone back and "overhauled" them. They have added to them but I don't think they have invested the time or money to reevaluate them. This is pure speculation on my part. For the money, for a OTS coilover....Xida's or Fox's.

There is a new option that a guy on another forum has started doing custom shocks, kind of like Fat Cat Motorsports just a lot cheaper. I will share the information if a moderator gives me the ok.

[MaRcOp01o]

I am really considering Apexi, Cusco or Teins but I love the classy look and Motorsports history of Ohlins plus I work in the Motorsport world and I have a connect who can get them basically at cost (BTW is still expensive).

[Roadster7]

Ohlins are nice and smooth, but spring rates are wrong. Fronts should be 550 instead of 450 - like Xidas. Ohlins are very comfortable to ride on and wouldn't disappoint if you plan on street driving primarily. If you care about performance driving though, I'd look at something that's not just pieced together to fit the roadster - I'd look at something that's tailored specifically for this car (Xida/Fox.) Most cars I see on the track that run Ohlins have ditched the standard springs.

Other than the spring rates, Ohlins have pillow-ball top hats, which are noisy and make an audible clicking sound. Not a big deal on track but might get annoying on the street.

Since you're considering something in the $2000 range, Xidas are on the table. I can't recommend them enough. Figure out the ride height you want, and pick the package that fits. If you don't take performance driving into consideration, GS just doesn't go low enough to look good IMO.

[bogaut]

yea xidas are nice but id rather not give emilio any money

[MaRcOp01o]

Wow thanks for the tip. The car would be primarily road driven or cruised maybe an autocross or 2, and I am in Florida so I don't have any canyons to carve sadly. And the car is really clean and nice to drive so I wouldn't mind a more forgiving suspension. I would probably opt for the Swift springs and thats about it. But I will look at Xidas because i have only heard good things.

[HarryB]

FM's Fox is also rumored to be nice, but I have not found a lot of feedback on them. Daryl uses them AFAIK so he can chime in. TBH for your intended use, I would go with NB2 Sport Bilstein dampers, Maruha deep top hats on the rear, FM springs and quality bumpstops.

[DarylSibcy]

FM's Fox is also rumored to be nice, but I have not found a lot of feedback on them. Daryl uses them AFAIK so he can chime in. TBH for your intended use, I would go with NB2 Sport Bilstein dampers, Maruha deep top hats on the rear, FM springs and quality bumpstops.

Did someone say my name? :winky:

Anyhow, to Marco! :D

My FOX shocks are sublime, I've had them for a few years now and I've played with spring rates a bit and dialed the shock settings in too. For street use I can't imagine there's anything "better". They don't squeak or rattle and they have an excellent amount of travel; suspension travel is much more important on the street/back roads rather than a smooth and well-maintained track.

For the record, I've never driven on Xidas coilovers, so I honestly can't comment on their performance or what they're like on the street. The FOX's are serviceable with OEM parts (bump stops, hats, washers, joints, etc) which for me was the selling point. In 5 years time I can take them off and replace them with readily available parts without worrying about whether Flyin' Miata is even still in business.
I'm sure they will be! But it's the peace of mind knowing I can get parts from any Mazda dealer is irreplaceable.

It also says a lot about FM's thought process when designing the setup. The coilovers are miata specific and built from the ground up using OEM parts. I find it humble that a major aftermarket company hasn't said "we can do better than they did"..

HTH! :D

[MaRcOp01o]

Did someone say my name? :winky:

Anyhow, to Marco! :D

My FOX shocks are sublime, I've had them for a few years now and I've played with spring rates a bit and dialed the shock settings in too. For street use I can't imagine there's anything "better". They don't squeak or rattle and they have an excellent amount of travel; suspension travel is much more important on the street/back roads rather than a smooth and well-maintained track.

For the record, I've never driven on Xidas coilovers, so I honestly can't comment on their performance or what they're like on the street. The FOX's are serviceable with OEM parts (bump stops, hats, washers, joints, etc) which for me was the selling point. In 5 years time I can take them off and replace them with readily available parts without worrying about whether Flyin' Miata is even still in business.
I'm sure they will be! But it's the peace of mind knowing I can get parts from any Mazda dealer is irreplaceable.

It also says a lot about FM's thought process when designing the setup. The coilovers are miata specific and built from the ground up using OEM parts. I find it humble that a major aftermarket company hasn't said "we can do better than they did"..

HTH! :D

Daryl- Thanks for your thoughts! FOX to me as always been up there in my choices and are insanely nice and quality is top tier. I am really happy FM decided to go that route. But the OHLINS for the price I am able to get them is such a good deal it really makes the FOX shocks not as attractive.

Harry- I found a mint set of OEM Bilstiens with 4k miles on them for $350. I love the idea that they're OEM and a sports upgrade but they don't lower the car enough for me. I want to be an inch lower.

[Slampen]

I got these recently.


https://youtu.be/T8keGgcYhQU


Haters gonna hate.

[MaRcOp01o]

I got these recently.


https://youtu.be/T8keGgcYhQU


Haters gonna hate.

Much want.

[HarryB]

I found a mint set of OEM Bilstiens with 4k miles on them for $350. I love the idea that they're OEM and a sports upgrade but they don't lower the car enough for me. I want to be an inch lower.

NB springs/dampers sit a bit high on NAs; FM springs do lower things, but need to check on numbers. The selling point for me on these is that FM rates are spot on for the damping curves of the NB Sport dampers, and a good compromise for daily use. Plus OEM Bilsteins are known to live pretty much forever and they are cheap to replace if you ever need to do so.


But the OHLINS for the price I am able to get them is such a good deal it really makes the FOX shocks not as attractive.

If it is a really good deal, I would get the Ohlins. I am sure they will not be bad by any means, and at the end of the day you may sell them and not lose money if you do not like them (which I doubt).

[MaRcOp01o]

NB springs/dampers sit a bit high on NAs; FM springs do lower things, but need to check on numbers. The selling point for me on these is that FM rates are spot on for the damping curves of the NB Sport dampers, and a good compromise for daily use. Plus OEM Bilsteins are known to live pretty much forever and they are cheap to replace if you ever need to do so.



If it is a really good deal, I would get the Ohlins. I am sure they will not be bad by any means, and at the end of the day you may sell them and not lose money if you do not like them (which I doubt).

Yeah Ohlins is the move I think and maybe one day do a DIY Blistein setup.

[CLZinn2]

Thank You DarylSibcy for you posts on FM FOX Shocks as I have been thinking of buying them and wondered if they lived up to what FM has to say about them. From what I've heard FM is a stand up act and I was pretty sure. Now I know what shocks I'm going to buy. It always costs more to go 1st class and I don't mind if it's worth it. Besides, every time Chris tries to save money, it's a disaster!!!

[Slampen]

Much want.

For me TUV is a big plus for the Ohlins.

[chiefmg]

I'm running Ohlins (bought them used) and like them a lot. I got a pair of Feal extended top hats and put them on the rear, that helped with the lack of travel. At the recommendation of someone I know I bought a pair of Maruha top hats for the front and will be installing them soon after I get home in a month. Don't think anyone else has installed deeper top hats on the front on Ohlins, I'll be sure to post what I think.

[Hyper]

Save your money and get the best coil overs in the market today. I chose the MeisterR CRD coilover kit. They are super Awesome in my son’s NC. I M going to buy them again for the white NB2 I have st home

[HarryB]

I do nit think that MeisterR are the best coil-over on the market by any means. They are indeed good enough for what they cost, especially if you are in Europe, but they are still a bit of a "one damper do it all", plus they are not rebuildable. I think Daryl moved from them to FM Fox, so he can chime in again.

IMO the biggest problem with Miata coli-overs is travel vs ride height. And a length-adjustable damper body means you have sacrificed travel to accommodate lowering. You can remedy that to a certain extend, but I would choose fixed body dampers any time, especially ones that their length suits your intended ride height. AFAIK only FM Fox and Xidas do that.

[Hyper]

Bro but what do you expect for the price and quality of the components? Upgrading for $995.00 is a big difference from OEM stock suspension. If you wsnt to spend $3000 on coil overs and suspension parts on a 2000 market value car that’s completely fine.
as for me the Meister R paired with aftermarket sway bars made a big difference from stock suspension. With the OEM suspension the car felt like it was floating and unstable at high speed. This car is daily driver when I switched to the 13 pounds light weight FD wheels and 225 50 16 (tel:225 50 16) tires for extra comfort it transformed into a handling beast. The biggest issue I had so far is adjusting the damper settings at height speed. I am happy where I am right but wish was bit flatter ride.

http://mazdaroadster.net/blob:http://mazdaroadster.net/815a2e75-b96f-4d78-ac6a-9d9ff4301c03

[HarryB]

And that means we perfectly agree ;)

[DarylSibcy]

Bro but what do you expect for the price and quality of the components? Upgrading for $995.00 is a big difference from OEM stock suspension. If you wsnt to spend $3000 on coil overs and suspension parts on a 2000 market value car that’s completely fine.
as for me the Meister R paired with aftermarket sway bars made a big difference from stock suspension. With the OEM suspension the car felt like it was floating and unstable at high speed. This car is daily driver when I switched to the 13 pounds light weight FD wheels and 225 50 16 (tel:225 50 16) tires for extra comfort it transformed into a handling beast. The biggest issue I had so far is adjusting the damper settings at height speed. I am happy where I am right but wish was bit flatter ride.

http://mazdaroadster.net/blob:http://mazdaroadster.net/815a2e75-b96f-4d78-ac6a-9d9ff4301c03

The MeisterR's I had on my NA were awful, granted they were the old "Zeta-S" range, I can't see what they'd change enough for the CRD's to go from awful to the "best" coilover on the market. The only reason I had Meister's was because FM's FOX's didn't exist at the time. Yes, they're more expensive, but they're also purpose built by a company that's reputable for knowing their way around miata's for over 30 years, so I trust their ability on how to design suspension for a miata. I'd never even heard of Meister before looking for some coilovers....

A flatter ride comes from well sorted shocks, springs and sways. My car rides really flat and the sways are on their "loose" setting, so no complaints here...

Honestly. I'd back a DIY NB Bilstein shock/FM spring combo any day over another set of MeisterR's.

[Slampen]

I would have gladly kept my crd+'s if they had tuv.....

Sent fra min SM-G935F via Tapatalk

[Hyper]

You guys can say what you want. Go to miata.net then to the NC suspension sub forum and read all the positive reviews for the NC platform. Nothing but great reviews for MeisterR CRD coilovers. I am sure there are other and better coilover kits out there. For $995.00, I am very happy I went that route with my NC

[HarryB]

I don't disagree, and especially on the NC platform I have near zero experience. BTW the car looks absolutely fantastic.

[Martin]

There is a new option that a guy on another forum has started doing custom shocks, kind of like Fat Cat Motorsports just a lot cheaper. I will share the information if a moderator gives me the ok.

Sorry about the delay. Go ahead and share - we like info.

[Greasemonkey2000]

First off I definitely recommend checking out his first thread because there is ALOT of good information. Really not a cut and paste affair as some of the context would be lost without the responses.

Hey guys,

this thread is actually a continuation of my original "DIY High-End Suspension on a $1000 Budget" thread found here (https://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=681657), so now that I've succumbed to the overwhelming responses I've received from that thread, due to popular demand & request, I'm now posting up a sales thread as an Official Vendor.

Introduction
those who follow my contributions to this community know me as TWGURU or Tony. Whilst my time in this community has been relatively short, I like to believe I have contributed a fair amount of "suspension tuning theory" in this short time, especially when it comes to my area of speciality; pressure tuning.

This is an area that, afaik, has not really been covered much. This is probably likely due to most coilover manufacturers not even knowing what it is, or don't really pay much attention to (cough cough...Bilstein...). I know Shaikh @ FCM has briefly touched on the topic (I highly recommend watching his Youtube videos (https://www.youtube.com/user/SuspensionTruth)), but hasn't really expanded into the reasoning behind it like I have done in my original thread.

Those who have enjoyed my original thread and find it educational should now have a better understanding of the importance of proper QC techniques, why Hysteresis and Cavitation is bad and, most importantly, how a damper actually functions and the role it plays in the suspension system.

Taking these important principles and applying them in the real world is the basis and foundation of all the dampers that I spec, build and tune for both my students (I teach suspension tuning theory to various manufacturers/specialists across the globe) and now my paying customers.

It is from this, I am proud to announce the start of VST: Veritas Suspension Technologies. Veritas is latin for truth, with our aim being to Unveil the truth behind the suspension industry

The Hardware

Our Penske style valving:
https://i.ibb.co/Xt4w7Fn/internals.jpg

Valving - Penske style* Double Digressive Pistons/Parabolic Needles/Rebound Jets. These are machined to within 99.9% of the tolerances of the off-the-shelf Penske components. Made in USA
Shims - Sandvik 20C Carbon Steel Shims. Imported from Sweden, these shims were developed specifically for damper valving and are not the cheap/generic shims that are commonly used by our competitors
Seals - We only use genuine Viton Low-Friction O-Rings and High-Temp BUNA Seals
Oil - We use genuine UK-Formula Silkolene RSF 2.5w high-VI shock fluid. This fluid will retain it's performance properties at extreme temperatures without breaking down
Monotube Bodies - We use 52mm OD, fine-threaded carbon steel bodies with zinc electro-plating for corrosion resistance. Internal surfaces are impregnated with an anti-friction compound using a proprietary lapping process. Our 4mm thick walls ensure your safety. Made in Taiwan
Piston Rods - We use 14mm OD (non-strut) and 20mm OD (strut) chromoly-steel piston rods. External surfaces are impregnated with an anti-friction compound using a proprietary lapping process. Made in Taiwan
Bottom Caps - The majority of coilovers on the market use standard self-healing rubber seals to charge their dampers. Whilst these serve their purpose, they are prone to leaking and, most importantly, make pressure tuning extremely difficult (these rely on Nitrogen Needles to charge, and will leak anywhere between 20-50psi as soon as you remove the needle). We use industry standard schrader valves (same as tire valves) that leak less (all high-pressure dampers will leak nitrogen pressure. Anyone that says otherwise don't know what they are talking about) and allow precise pressure tuning to within 5psi. Made in Taiwan

*If you are wondering why we say Penske style, it is because their default off-the-shelf components do not fit our piston rods without a lot of machining work, so instead, we sourced the machined components from elsewhere hence "style" as you cannot buy these directly from Penske

Our mounts (These ones are for the ND):
https://i.ibb.co/9TjqPB0/ndmounts.jpg

Upper Mounts - We use Hard Anodized 6061-T6 Aluminum with a genuine Japanese NMB Spherical Bearing for both Front & Rear Mounts. Made in Taiwan/Japan
Perches/Lower Mounts/Collars - We use Hard Anodized 6061-T6 Aluminum. Made in Taiwan
Springs - We use genuine Swift Springs which have a lifetime guarantee against spring sag. Made in Japan
Coil Rotation - We use genuine Swift teflon thrust sheets between the spring/mount surface to allow the spring to rotate independently of the damper body. These do not rust nor require maintenance like Torrington bearings do, and are self-lubricating. Made in Japan

Adjustability

Rebound-Only Adjustable Damping - By default, this is the setup we use and recommend. As compression damping is fixed, we will offer two different tunes for our customers to choose from; a "Street Tune" for general road compliance, and a "Road/Race Tune" for those wiling to sacrifice compliance for performance. Both of these tunes will be based on high performance street tires (not R-Comps), with the Road/Race tune offering compression damping at the upper limit of traction threshold

Simultanous Compression/Rebound Adjustable Damping - Whilst we highly recommend against this setup, we understand why some would prefer this and we can accomodate if required. This will use the same valving profiles as our Rebound-Only Street and Road/Race tunes; the only difference being you can adjust compression as well. Be forewarned though; lowering your compression will also lower your rebound, resulting in a softer but also bouncier ride. Likewise, increasing compression will also increase your rebound, resulting in a harsher ride

Independently Adjustable Damping - Via the use of external reservoirs, these will allow you to adjust the compression damping independently from the rebound damping. What this means is, if you want to lower your compression damping for road compliance, you can do so without having to worry about pogo'ing all over the place. Likewise, if you want to increase your compression damping (to the upper limit of traction threshold for your tires), you may do so without having to worry about your rear end skipping all over the place

Ride Height Adjustment - Although we utilize threaded/adjustable lower mounts, these are NOT used to adjust ride height (contrary to other manufacturers beliefs). The sole purpose of the adjustable lower mounts is to allow you to set your desired bump/droop travel; typically, you set this to a 1:1 ratio between Tire : Damper. You would then lower/raise your vehicle using the lower spring perch. As we use linear springs, pre-loading the spring while unloaded does not change nor affect the spring rate (unless pre-loaded higher than static spring compression which you'll never do). If you adjust ride height using the lower mount, you will change your Tire : Damper ratio which you do not want to do

Tuning

Those who have been following my original thread (linked at the start of this post. If you've not yet had the chance to read it, please feel free to do so. You may (or may not) learn a lot from it) will have a better understanding of our views & philosophy when it comes to the intricacies of damper valving & tuning. To cut a long story short, we tune our dampers based on:

1) Pressure Tuning
This is one of the most important parts of damper tuning and, unfortunately, is lacking from the majority of coilovers currently on the market. The process consists of a combination of rod displacement, chamber volume and nitrogen pressure calculations. It is via pressure tuning you can fine tune:

- Hysteresis. Also know as valving lag, and is the valving delay between the opening (acceleration) and closing (deceleration) phases of the compression and rebound strokes. When looking at shock dyno graphs, it is important that you view the Force vs Absolute Velocity Graph as this clearly shows any issues with the valving as shown below

- Cavitation. This is when the damper oil pressure drops to zero and vaporizes, which results in decreased damping forces. In monotube dampers, this happens when there is not enough nitrogen pressure to overcome the pressure drop caused during the compression stroke. Consistent cavitation will result in the damper oil breaking down and leads to damper fade

- Damper Response. All monotube dampers are gas pressurized and have what is called an internal gas spring. This is the initial force that needs to be overcome before the damper can start functioning (i.e the rod moving). Too high an internal gas pressure will result in an increased gas spring force which results in decreased damper response

A competitors damper with bad/non-existent pressure tuning:
https://i.ibb.co/dmqYQSb/bad.png

A VST Stage 3 damper with proper pressure tuning:
https://i.ibb.co/YXfCDj1/good.png

It is not difficult to determine which graph above is the better performing damper. Viewing only a basic single-line Average Force vs Absolute Velocity Graph (which simply averages the open & close phases) or Compression Closed/Rebound Open Graph (which only shows 50% of the results) are meaningless as they hide any potential issues as shown in the graph above. Unfortunately, those are precisely what most of our competitors will show you in their marketing materials.

2) Valve Tuning
Double Digressive Piston - We use this style of piston as it generates a quick ramp up of damping pressure at low damper speeds (user-controlled input) allowing increased responsiveness and stability, and "blows off" damping pressure at higher damper speeds (bumps) allowing increased comfort and control

Critical Damping - This is described as the damping force required to control the oscillations of the suspension (i.e the energy stored in the spring) and return it to equilibrium. Too little damping force (underdamped) and your damper is unable to control the energy released from the spring, causing a bouncy or floaty ride. Too much damping force (overdamped) and your damper overpowers your spring, causing harshness and loss of traction. We generally valve all of our dampers to within 65-70% of Critical Damping @ 3"/sec damper velocity (Between 0-5"/sec is where the average vehicle will spend the majority of it's time). To calculate this value, we use a 2 DOF (Degree of Freedom) model which utilizes Vehicle Sprung & Unpsrung Weights, Damper & Spring Motion Ratios and Tire Spring Rates

3) Natural Ride Frequencies
Before we can tune the valving, we need to determine the spring rates required. Unlike our competitors that choose their spring rates (this can be inaccurate, as what feels soft on one car may feel harsh on another), we calculate the correct spring rate balance using natural ride frequencies with a ratio of approx. 1:1.2 (front:rear). Typically, these frequencies are (but can vary slightly):

Street Car - 1.0-1.5hz
Sports Car - 1.5-2.0hz
Track Car (Non-Aero) - 2.0-2.5hz
Track Car (Aero) - 2.5-3.0hz

4) Quality Control
Damper Bleeding - This is the process of bleeding/removing air from the damper during assembly. A monotube damper works on the premise of 3 individual chambers: Rebound Chamber, Compression Chamber and Gas Chamber. The Rebound & Compression Chamber must only be filled with oil, which is, for all intents and purposes, non-compressible. The Gas Chamber must only be filled with gas (usually Nitrogen) and is compressible. If there are air pockets inside the Rebound and/or Compression Chambers, then these turn from a non-compressible state to compressible state and Hysteresis occurs. Unfortunately, a large % of the oil in a bottle/drum is dissolved air. If, during assembly, this air is not removed from the oil, then you will have "compressible oil" inside your Rebound/Compression Chambers. Budget manufacturers don't care about this (or even know the reason why). Most good manufacturers will spend 20+ minutes manually pumping the piston rod up/down the damper body to bleed the air. Unfortunately, this only gets you 90% of the way there. The proper way to do it, and the only way to bleed 100% of the air out of the damper is to use a process by which air is vacuumed out of the damper body and oil is vacuum-filtered via an automatic Vacuum Bleeding process. All VST Stage 2-4 dampers are Vacuum Bled

Dyno Testing - In addition to dyno tuning, all VST Dampers are individually tested on industry-standard MTS Shock Dynamometers to check for valving inconsistencies and issues. All Stage 2-4 customers will, during our build process, be updated with live dyno results showing them the progress of their dampers. There is zero excuse for any coilover manufacturer not to offer you these results.

Put simply, if a coilover manufacturer cannot supply you with a Force vs Absolute Velocity Graph for your exact damper, then they are usually a trading company selling cheap mass-manufactured coilover kits from the Taiwanese-Trio with non-existent QC. If they will not supply you with one for your exact damper, or want to charge you money to do so, then they have something to hide.

Manufacturing
The one question that will always be asked is Where are these manufactured?. That is a good question and the answer to that is globally. Why do I say this? The reason is because:

1) All of our components, as described above, are imported from several different countries: USA, Japan, Sweden, United Kingdom and Taiwan
2) Although I am from Walnut, CA, my job requires me to travel the globe. However, because my job is in this exact same industry, it means that I can build and tune dampers to the exact same specifications no matter which location I am at (due to all of my clients & students having the proper equipment/facilities). A set of dampers could be shipped from USA one week, then shipping from Australia the next!

[Greasemonkey2000]

The Product
If you've managed to read through all of that, well done. If not, please scroll back up and read through it all. The reason I say this is because we want all of our customers to understand exactly what VST are about, and why we do what we do.

For our Coilover Kits, we have split these into 4 separate stages, however, they all have the following in common:

- The same Hardware as detailed above
- The same Adjustability as detailed above (exc. the independently adjustable reservoirs)
- The same Tuning procedure as detailed above
- You get to choose the lengths and stroke of the dampers that you require from our inventory (we have a multitude of damper body lengths and rod strokes available) and, unlike our competitors, are not locked into what they decide to give you
- You get to choose the spring lengths and rates that you require, from 4" to 11" in length, and from 4kg/mm to 50kg/mm. We will, of course, assist you in calculating the correct Natural Ride Frequencies
- If you already have your own linear springs or wish to purchase your own (these must be 62-65mm ID), you can remove the default Swift option (Springs & Thrust Sheets) and deduct $200 from the price
- We will ship worldwide. Shipping is flat-rate $100 to North America, Western Europe, South-East Asia and Australasia. For other regions, please contact us
- These are available for NA/NB, NC and ND
- Lead time for Stage 1 Kits are ~ 2-3 days
- Lead time for Stage 2/3 Kits are ~ 2-3 weeks
- Stage 4 Kits are currently being tested

VST Stage 1 (DIY Kit) - $1000 <- Industry first. AFAIK, no other company offers this, certainly not in "Kit" form anyway. This was the original intention of my DIY thread listed above. Suffice to say, it has come to fruition. Can be upgraded to Stage 4 at a later date
Lowest priced option. These will be available in a Street tune and a Road/Race tune, but the customer would need to build and bleed the dampers themselves. Of course, we will offer a full guide on how to do this and will be available to help every step of the way. If I'm in your area during my travels, I may even be able to stop by and assist.

VST Stage 2 (Pre-Assembled Kit) - $1250 <- Similar to what most are used to when buying a coilover kit, but without the QC issues. Can be upgraded to Stage 4 at a later date
A kit with pre-assembled dampers. Customer just needs to assemble the mounts/collars/springs (they will be packaged individually) onto the dampers and install it onto their car. More expensive, but the actual dampers would be built, bled and QC'd by me personally with a semi-custom tune (to match their chosen spring rates, corner weights and tires). These will be available in a Street tune and a Road/Race tune. This is basically similar to what you'd get from an "off-the-shelf" kit from another vendor, but will be customised for your exact vehicle and without the QC issues inherent with "off-the-shelf"

VST Stage 3 (Custom-Valved Kit) - $1500 <- Similar to what you'd get if you were to spend $3k+ from a more established brand. Can be upgraded to Stage 4 at a later date
A custom tuned kit. Similar to Stage 2, but I will personally tune the damping curve to your required specifications. If you have a little more knowledge as to what you want out of your dampers, you don't have to rely on me to tell you what you need/want; I will just tune the curve to match as close-as-possible (within the limits of our valving) to what you want. Want a steeper compression ramp? Not a problem. Want a set that resembles your Xida's, KW, Ohlins or Penske's? Not a problem.

VST Stage 4 (Independently Adjustable Kit) - $TBC (will be ~$2500). ETA 1-2 Months <- Similar to what you'd get if you were to spend $5k+ from a more established brand
Similar to our Stage 3 Kit, but including external reservoirs allowing independent compression adjustments.

If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to ask!

Tony

I have spoke to Tony via email numerous times and he is very helpful and very knowledgeable. Again really reminds me of Shaikh from Fat Cat Motorsports. This is the route I think I will be going. I will see if he would be interested in joining here to add to the conversations about suspensions.