Dealing with stripes when detailing

[Grumpy]

I probably won't ever get a PC7424, but I'd still like to know how you guys deal with vinyl stripes on the cars when you are detailing. I'm about to have rocker stripes and don't want em trashed when I go to clean up the paint on the car. The stripes aren't matte finish so that's one good thing.

Thanks!

[f86sabjf]

I saw a post on Meguiars about this somewhere I'll see if i can find it.

[f86sabjf]

I knew i saw it somewhere here you go

http://www.meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?49291-Meguiar-s-Quik-Tips-Video-Series-Maintaining-Wraptivo-Designer-Car-Wraps



http://youtu.be/RJV02bVpFM4

[revlimiter]

Easy - treat it just like your paint.

Vinyl can be clay bar'd. Vinyl can be polished. Vinyl can be waxed. You can use rubbing compound to take care of tough spots (but doing that too much will eat into the vinyl). I treat mine no differently than my paint.

You just have to re-apply it every 5-7 years or so.

[Grumpy]

Thanks for the link f86. The main concern I had was catching the edge of the cumulative while polishing and removing it.
Revlimiter, thanks. I was hoping you'd respond since Sharka is one of the most visible striped miatas out there and always looks amazing in your photos. Yes, the photograper makes the great shots, but the reflections on Sharka come from top tier care methinks.

[revlimiter]

Thanks! Sharka needs polish and wax in the worst way. My last wash job was a quicky and I've got some fine scratches from the towel. The kind of scratches you can only see in direct sunlight.

BTW, I like Meguiars tech wax. Cheap, can be found everywhere, it lasts a few months, and it buffs off easy. :)

[f86sabjf]

If your worried about getting up on the edge just tape it off with some painters tape. I tape off all my trim and Headlights ,tailights . That way i can go nuts with my Griots buffer and not worry about it

[Junkman2008]

Easy - treat it just like your paint.

Vinyl can be clay bar'd. Vinyl can be polished. Vinyl can be waxed. You can use rubbing compound to take care of tough spots (but doing that too much will eat into the vinyl). I treat mine no differently than my paint.

You just have to re-apply it every 5-7 years or so.

Actually, this is only true with SOME vinyl stripes. If you look at the vinyl stripe industry, it is a versatile and the quality ranges just as detailing products do. For example, I can wet sand a scratch out of a 3M clear bra but not the cheaper imitations. The 3M clear bras can heal when working on them. Try this with a crappy quality clear bra and all you will end up with is a dull mess.

The vinyl industry is the same way. Some vinyl you can work on, some you can't. Any vinyl decal with a matte finish cannot be worked on without causing them to become shiny. That's a no-no for those who want their ride to remain authentic.

Personally, I mask off the edges of the stripes with painter's tape as f86sabjf suggested. I don't want that disgusting build up of polish or wax up against my stripes. If you attempt to clean that, you end up causing premature raising of the stripes. That looks even worse. So my personal suggestion when dealing with stripes is to either don't, or consult with the stripes manufacturer as to how to deal with them. They are the only authority who can best tell you what works with their stripes. If you don't know the manufacturer, leave them alone.

[Grumpy]

thanks junkman, the stripes are oracal 951m vinyl.

[Titus]

Actually, this is only true with SOME vinyl stripes. If you look at the vinyl stripe industry, it is a versatile and the quality ranges just as detailing products do. For example, I can wet sand a scratch out of a 3M clear bra but not the cheaper imitations. The 3M clear bras can heal when working on them. Try this with a crappy quality clear bra and all you will end up with is a dull mess.

The vinyl industry is the same way. Some vinyl you can work on, some you can't. Any vinyl decal with a matte finish cannot be worked on without causing them to become shiny. That's a no-no for those who want their ride to remain authentic.

Personally, I mask off the edges of the stripes with painter's tape as f86sabjf suggested. I don't want that disgusting build up of polish or wax up against my stripes. If you attempt to clean that, you end up causing premature raising of the stripes. That looks even worse. So my personal suggestion when dealing with stripes is to either don't, or consult with the stripes manufacturer as to how to deal with them. They are the only authority who can best tell you what works with their stripes. If you don't know the manufacturer, leave them alone.

Thanks Junkman... Hopefully R2-Limited will show up and talk to us about the material he uses in his stripes.

[Junkman2008]

thanks junkman, the stripes are oracal 951m vinyl.

You're in luck my friend. I'm on the phone with Oracal now and I am getting you a ton of information. :slayer:

[Titus]

You're in luck my friend. I'm on the phone with Oracal now and I am getting you a ton of information. :slayer:

While you have them on the phone, ask about Orcal 651 as that is what R2-Limited uses (http://www.r2-limited.com/?page_id=319). :mrgreen:

[Junkman2008]

Okay. I just spoke with Dean Strohmenger who is the Sr. Product Support Specialist for Oracal. First, he directed me to this document (http://pc-surgeon.net/images/cforum/instructions/Vehicle%20Graphics%20Maintenance.pdf), which talks about the specific care of vinyl stripes that are made using their companies materials. Here's the deal. Oracal doesn't sell directly to the public, they sell to distributors. The distributors sell to the people who cut the patterns and/or install the cut materials on your car or signs. The fact that you know where your stripes come from is a big plus. Three of the top manufacturers are 3M, Oracal and Avery, 3 names that we are well aware of.

All of these companies make vinyl for lettering and stripes which vary in quality due to their plasticizer content. This plasticizer content consist of various materials/chemicals and determines how long the stripes will last. This also determines how long of a warranty you will get with your stripes/lettering. Each company has their own "secret recipe" that makes up their platicizer content but I'm sure that the maintenance procedures are going to be similar for all of the various manufactured stripes/lettering. One thing to note. There are fly by night companies that sell Chinese made knockoffs (just as there are in any business... damn the Chinese manufacturing community). So if you find someone offering a supposedly top notch product for a heavily reduced price, you may get what you paid for.

One very interesting thing about the warranty of these vinyl stripes. They have a warranty based on a sliding scale, depending on where you are located. In other words, a 10 year warranty is not 10 years in Arizona or Texas, like it would be in NY or North Dakota. Also, and this was the most shocking point that he made, the warranty is based on the vertical plane. That means the stripes on the side of your car is where the warranty is applied, not the horizontal parts. The horizontal parts are NOT warrantied because the elements of weather are too brutal to warranty that part! Wow, I never knew that!

So there you are. A document that definitively instructs you on how to care for your stripes. One thing that he said to definitely not do is wax your stripes. He said that waxing the stripes will dry up the plasticizing content in the vinyl and cause them to fail well before their supposed lifetime.

So now we all know. :)

[Junkman2008]

While you have them on the phone, ask about Orcal 651 as that is what R2-Limited uses (http://www.r2-limited.com/?page_id=319). :mrgreen:

Straight from their website:

ORACAL 651 Intermediate Cal

Thanks to its proprietary formulation and construction, ORACAL Series 651 has become the industry standard for high-performance calendered films. Only 2.5 mils thick, ORACAL 651 offers six-year outdoor durability, flexibility, thermal print compatibility, and a choice of 60 high-gloss colors and transparent. This high-quality film is a good choice for moderately complex jobs that don't require the extra conformability provided by our cast films.

Technical Details

Description
High-gloss, intermediate-performance specially optimized PVC film.

Release Liner
84# custom silicone-coated paper with special release characteristics that provide excellent weeding and release values. Customized blue silicone paper liner for matte white and gloss white provides superior contrast for cutting and weeding.

Adhesive
Solvent polyacrylate, permanent.

Areas of Use
Due to its special release characteristics, this product is ideal for use on computer-aided sign-making (CAS) equipment. Its special proprietary formulation ensures optimized stability and resistance to UV degradation. For medium-term outdoor applications.

Printing Techniques
Gloss colors, other than metallics, are thermal transfer compatible.

Thickness
(without protective paper and adhesive) 2.5 mil

Dimensional Stability
(FINAT TM-14) adhered to steel, no shrinkage in cross direction, in length <.016"

Temperature Resistance
adhered to aluminum, -40°F to +176°F no variation

Adhesive Power
(FINAT TM-1, after 24 h, stainless steel, average) 4.1 lb/in

Outdoor Durability
(based on vertical surface exposure) 6 years black/white, 4 years colors/transparent/metallic, 3 years Brilliant Blue

Shelf Life
(68 °F/50% relative humidity) 2 years

Seawaterability
(DIN 50 021) adhered to aluminum, no variation after 100 hours/73°F

Elongation at break (across)
(DIN EN ISO 527) min. 150%

Elongation at break (along)
(DIN EN ISO 527) min. 130%

Tensile Strength (across)
(DIN EN ISO 527) min. 19 MPa

Tensile Strength (along)
(DIN EN ISO 527) min. 19 MPa

Resistance to solvents and chemicals
After 72 h adhered to aluminum at room temperature, resistant to most oils and greases, aliphatic solvents, weak acids, salts and alkalis.

Minimum application temperature
+46 °F

Available Widths (in inches)
15 punched, 24, 30 , 36 (#000 transparent, #010 white, #070 black only), 48, 60 (#010 white ONLY)

Available Lengths
10-yard rolls, 50-yard rolls

Surface finish
high gloss, matte (black & white only)

Number of Colors
60 and transparent

Even more technical data within this PDF document (http://www.oracal.com/products/_docs/2010-tech-info/ORACAL_651.pdf).

[Grumpy]

thanks for the abundance of info. I'll most def. tape them off when waxing/buffing

[R2Limited]

thanks junkman, the stripes are oracal 951m vinyl.

Thanks for all the info on ORCAL 651 that you posted, Junkman. It's good stuff. Pretty much the standard for automotive graphics. Of course, not full wraps. That would be the ORCAL 970 series "cast" wrapping film. It's much more flexible and conforms to the intricate contours of the car's body easier.

951m is pretty stuff. Has a metalic flake to it like a pearl or mica car finish. It's also a "cast" film which will be a slight bit more durable and smooth than the calendared films.


thanks for the abundance of info. I'll most def. tape them off when waxing/buffing

I would. Especially if your vinyl has more intricate details like the "EUNOS" lettering on my stripes. I would avoid those with a buffer. I wouldn't be afraid to polish/wax/buff them by hand, though. While there is a lot of talk about the vinyl being removable within the warranty period....it's not exactly super easily removable. It takes some effort. More effort than you'd exert hand buffing a car.

[revlimiter]

So there you are. A document that definitively instructs you on how to care for your stripes. One thing that he said to definitely not do is wax your stripes. He said that waxing the stripes will dry up the plasticizing content in the vinyl and cause them to fail well before their supposed lifetime.

So now we all know. :)

Huh. I've been doing it wrong for 12 years.

[94R]

Huh. I've been doing it wrong for 12 years.

Haha. I've been waxing mine for the past 17 years. Although, I did just replace my stripes about 7 years ago. Oh well.

[Junkman2008]

Thanks for all the info on ORCAL 651 that you posted, Junkman. It's good stuff. Pretty much the standard for automotive graphics. Of course, not full wraps. That would be the ORCAL 970 series "cast" wrapping film. It's much more flexible and conforms to the intricate contours of the car's body easier.

951m is pretty stuff. Has a metalic flake to it like a pearl or mica car finish. It's also a "cast" film which will be a slight bit more durable and smooth than the calendared films.

Sounds like you are really up on this stuff! Are you as well versed with the 3M line also? I'm thinking that the various companies share some common areas when it comes to this stuff but I'll wait for your answer. I have been meaning to do some in-depth research on this for years to compliment what I already know. Thanks to you guys, I have finally gotten started.


Haha. I've been waxing mine for the past 17 years. Although, I did just replace my stripes about 7 years ago. Oh well.

Well hell, now we all know for sure. :cool:

[R2Limited]

Sounds like you are really up on this stuff! Are you as well versed with the 3M line also?

I've only used one sample of 3M vinyl. I have a small roll of it at the office with all my other vinyl products. Not sure which model or grade of their vinyl it is. But, honestly, based on my limited sample, I really prefer the ORCAL 651 better.

I'm sure you can't go wrong with either one. They're both fantastic products that will hold up in this application for years and years.

[Junkman2008]

Cool. You would know better than I since you do the installing. I'll take your word for it. :cool: