Xidas Q&A

[OBD1 kenobi]

Hello guys/gals. Im currently saving pennies to do a total suspension overhaul. My '94 more likely than not has its original suspension. I have been reading everything I can about different suspension set ups and I keep coming back to Xidas. Im still not a 100% certain of what way to go but I decided to ask here in the forum for anyone with this set up to help ask and answer questions related to Xidas. My purpose is not to start another "what suspension settings should I use" or "how do xidas compare to..." As I understand those are questions with many variables and dependent on personal preference but if those should arise, I gather the information will benefit anybody researching them now and in the future.

I know that Adam (revlimiter) did an excellent review on them as usual with his own enjoyable style. But other than his take, my web searches have netted me rather old vague reviews. So, any help would be greatly appreciated.

Lastly, why Im asking this now? Because Im very close to being able to afford something like Xidas and father's day is around the corner :-) I usually dont care much about father's day gifts but if I can persuade the Mrs Obd1 kenobi, why not?

Currently 949 racing has a starting price for NA miata xidas of $1699, you can add NB top hats (+$100), double springs (+$220) and so forth. If I go with Xidas, I will definitely need the NB top hats, but what about the double springs? What are the benefits of adding those? Please excuse my ignorance at that. I promise I am going to research that too. But I felt, I needed to ask that first question to start the ball rolling.


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[kung fu jesus]

They keep the main spring seated when the damper is in full extension.

[freedomgli]

Just spend the little bit of extra money now for the helper springs and don't over think it.

Quoted from another forum.

Emilio, owner at 949 Racing explaining this.





The Xida, being a long stroke damper, requires dual springs to make full use of the extra stroke available.

Spring stroke vs suspension articulation
A 2000 lb car with the motion ratio of just under 1.5:1 won't compress a short 700# spring far enough to allow meaningful droop travel with long stroke damper. To get the correct ride height, one must lower the preload collar until the springs have 25-60mm of free play. Without the secondary springs (helper), there is no spring stroke left to push the tire down to remain in contact with the road.

Weight
To get the correct spring rate for competition and high performance use while retaining enough spring stroke, would require a 9-11" long spring. Springs aren't light, particularly less expensive springs so that isn't a good solution. Hyperco and Swift generally have the lightest and most consistent rate springs on the market. We use Hyperco's because they cost about the same as Swifts and many of the sizes utilize their proprietary OBD (Optimum Body Diameter) design technology which further reduces weight and helps control distortion under compression.

Progressive rate
Beyond the spring weight issue, the Miata doesn't need 400-800lb springs when at full extension as the contact patch loading is almost nil then. A much lower rate will work better with that lightly loaded tire. What is called for is a progressive rate spring. Look at any purpose built race car that has more than about 75mm of damper stroke and you'll see dual springs. Off road and rally cars will often use three separate springs stacked up for a huge spring rate range.


Costs
If you start with the higher rate single spring setup then upgrade to duals later, the main springs may have to be swapped for a shorter set at the cost of about $150/pair. We offer the Xida Club Sport without the helpers for the Miata owner on a tight budget. The system will do everything better with the dual springs in place though. We tested the single spring Club Sports on our local bumpy road course on a Spec Miata with 9" wheels. They worked very well. Well enough for me to be comfortable offering the XCS without the helpers. Guys have been adding high spring rate Ground Control and other coilover sleeves to their Bilsteins and Koni Sports forever with good results so it's not like it doesn't work at all. It's just less than optimum. "Less that optimum" wasn't in the design criteria for the Xida's .

Without Helpers. Note the spring dangling free at full droop. Next image shows dual setup with coupler and Torrington bearings

http://949racing.com/images/products/display/949_racing_xida_club_sport.jpg

http://949racing.com/images/products/display/949_racing_xida_club_sport_dual.jpg

[OBD1 kenobi]

Thanks Freedomgli. Thats exactly what I needed.


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[wannafbody]

One thing you need to figure out is what ride height and spring rate you plan to run. That determines whether you'll need helper springs. Also, I think the FM Fox setup will allow higher ride height than the Xida setup.

[NCGreasemonkey]

OBD1 just curious. Have you thought about Feals? Not to steer you from your goal/dream.

For slightly over $1700 shipped to the east-coast. And they have race-valving, NB high hats and 12/8K preloaded springs. I love mine.

Greasemonkey2000 (Chad) is also running this set-up. Might want to get his thoughts, also.

I know how hard $$$ is to come by.

[OBD1 kenobi]

One thing you need to figure out is what ride height and spring rate you plan to run. That determines whether you'll need helper springs. Also, I think the FM Fox setup will allow higher ride height than the Xida setup.

Yep. I understand that the Xidas can run pretty low. Im not interested in a super low ride but after reading all this information I will likely get the helper springs( if I go with xidas). Interesting that you mentioned the Fox coilovers from FM. I only know Fox from My mountain bike days and From the Ford Raptors so, not really a great comparison. FM states its their "best suspension" and I have no reason not to believe them but I have not heard much about it and their coilovers are in back order. Would love to learn more bout them though.

[OBD1 kenobi]

OBD1 just curious. Have you thought about Feals? Not to steer you from your goal/dream.

For slightly over $1700 shipped to the east-coast. And they have race-valving, NB high hats and 12/8K preloaded springs. I love mine.

Greasemonkey2000 (Chad) is also running this set-up. Might want to get his thoughts, also.

I know how hard $$$ is to come by.

Hey, Im all for learning about more options. I will check them out. Thanks for the input. Like I said, im still not a 100% set on Xidas and honestly I enjoy reading and learning about all of this. One question though (and this may apply to Xidas too) how is the aftermarket support for the Feals? I mean, are they rebuildable, can you upgrade on them? We all know that Emilio, Keith, FCM offer great support when you need them. Do Feal offer such services too? Sorry, I just didnt know about them. Now I have some bedtime reading to do :-)

[NCGreasemonkey]

Ordered mine thru GWR. But here is their link.

http://fealsuspensionstore.com/home/

Like this video.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OrxjKvy0xLs

I wanted Ohlins at first. But my wallet was scared! :drinkto:

[mx54life]

My 2cents on these coilovers for daily or spirited drivers. It all comes down to what you can handle in terms of the change it's gonna bring forth. Take a ride on a Miata with Xida if possible and other set-up so you have a comparison. If you can drive it in the your normal route the better so you will get the most accurate perspective of what will work for you. The thing with coilovers is that they are generally designed for racing where the road is smooth as glass lol. In the street the buyer will end up with a huge compromise. The idea of putting it to the worst setting then backing off one click at a time till you find it comfortable is a "huge compromise". In my case I have two comparison between my Tein Street Flex and my AFCO. The latter is definitely the better of the two more so because I bought it at a very low used price ($300) and had it rebuilt. Also the price of rebuilding is something you may want to research on. Teins charges $125 per shock. While AFCO charged me $68 per corner and let me tell you about after sales support of this company. They replace all four shafts to their latest upgraded version for free (would have cost me $90 each) considering I am not the original owner and the coilovers where sold by FM back 6 years ago. Now that is customer service my friend. IMHO it all stems from the company that sold them (sad they were discontinued) and that is Flyin' Miata. Try emailing Keith regarding the AFCO (which he still uses) and you will get response and support first class no condescending tone lol. Bottom line is buying what you like is way better than liking what you bought lol. Hey don't over think it, but you have to look at all scenarios. Good luck!!!

[revlimiter]

Helper springs are totally worth it. Order the XIDA with them. Don't overthink.

You might give 949 a call and chat about the suspension. Emilio is an incredibly intelligent fellow. He'll answer any questions you have.

[Greasemonkey2000]

I originally wasn't going to post as i don't have experience personal with Xida's and it sounded like you didn't want non related feedback on other choices but since that seems to have changed i will lend my limited experience with two different setups.

My first was a Fat Cat Motorsports 2040 coilovers with 375lbs F/325lbs R springs. Here is a link to my review after about 250 miles, see post #47:
http://mazdaroadster.net/showthread.php?12014-%26%239734%3B%26%239734%3B%26%239734%3B-97M-Warbird-%26%239734%3B%26%239734%3B%26%239734%3B/page4

I loved the FCM setup! Shaikh was always a pleasure to deal with and typically very quick with communications, including text that were after hours and late at that. The one draw back was the wait time which was originally projected to be 4-6 weeks but ended up being 12 weeks. :fp: Was it worth the wait? :shrug: I think so.

After enjoying the FCM's for about 1.5 yrs i started rethinking my goals and decided to go with a more aggressive setup. Here is the post with all my thoughts on the reasons for the transition, see post #171:
http://mazdaroadster.net/showthread.php?12014-%26%239734%3B%26%239734%3B%26%239734%3B-97M-Warbird-%26%239734%3B%26%239734%3B%26%239734%3B/page12

Next(current) was the Feal 441 Road Race coilovers with 12k/8k(662lbs/448lbs) Swift springs. See post #173 from the above link for installation of the Feal's. I guess I never really did a review on tbe Feal's, shame on me, but i really do like them and think at around $1600(when i bought them) they are a great value and product. Odi with Feal's has a pretty good reputation but he is a new comer in the miata world but is well established among other communities and the drift community.

I think Xida's are definitely top tier and have yet to see much negative feedback about them and i myself considered them before the FCM's and again when i was looking into the Feal's. In the end not getting Xida's had little to nothing to do with me questioning their capability but all to do with my own personal feelings that I'd rather not disclose publicly. If i ever bought Xida's it would be second hand bnib or used.

At the end of the day if you only have the stock suspension to compare to then most will feel SO MUCH BETTER! I was spoiled by the ride quality of the FCM's and sometimes wish i had tried 100lbs stiffer springs before getting rid of them but i still think the Feal's are great and would recommend them. Ryan and Sean at Goodwin Racing is always very helpful and their personal feedback on them is a major reason i decided to try the Feal's out. I'd so street miatas would be fine with the regular Feal's since the Road Race has more aggressive valving.

[freedomgli]

Take a ride on a Miata with Xida if possible and other set-up so you have a comparison.
Good advice. Everyone has different tastes and different needs and wants. Reading spec sheets and customer reviews will only get you so far.



The thing with coilovers is that they are generally designed for racing where the road is smooth as glass lol. In the street the buyer will end up with a huge compromise.
There are dozens of different "coilover" shock and spring combos for the Miata ranging from $200 to $6,000 per set of 4. Some are adjustable (shock length, preload, ride height, rebound damping (high- and low-speed), compression damping, active) and some are not. Some are designed to be stock like replacements, some get you low for as cheap as possible, some get you to the podium at SCCA Runoffs, some are meant for drifting, some for auto-x, some for HPDE, some for twisty mountain roads, some for bumpy gravel roads, some try to do it all and fail, some try to do a lot and are a decent compromise for your average driver with your average dual-purpose car on average roads and race circuits. Even amongst the shocks designed for serious racers they usually are custom configured for a very specific application as not all cars and tracks and racing are the same. Most race setups start with a good baseline but require even more user development to get them working at their optimum. This is why serious race teams have suspension gurus that analyze the data logs, talk to the driver, interpret what they're saying and make fine adjustments. This holds true whether using Bilstein, Koni, FCM, XIDA, Penske, JRZ, etc.

The XIDA, for example, is manufactured by Tractive and HVT for 949Racing who have co-developed it as a Miata-specific "race" coilover for the serious track day enthusiast and road racer. It's can also be a great coilover for the street. It can also be upgraded to double or triple adjustable if you really want. It can also be upgraded to a semi-active electronically adjustable setup. It all depends on your needs and wants.

[Phatmiata]

.......... Take a ride on a Miata with Xida if possible and other set-up so you have a comparison.


THIS times 1000 !!! ^^


You know my offer still stands to drive my Miata, which is rare as I dont like letting anyone else drive it, also check with Corey (Corifto), he has coilovers (not sure what brand) or Scotty (Spinnywhoosh), and John (Hammerhead) he has a nice setup as well.

Come out to a club meet and drive a few cars before you blow $1600 or $2000 on suspension. It would suck to spend all that money, and get it installed it only to find you dont like the way your Miata rides.

[NCGreasemonkey]

Or wait to 'Palooza' and see if you can set a record on how many CO set-ups you can test in one day.... Just a thought!

[949 Racing]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUyfLUQDyjw&index=7&list=PLFC736BAD99026547

[drizzay222]

Running MSM with full interior so it's a little heavy. After talking to Emilio I went with 800/500 springs, billet tophats and the big grip kit. Transformed the car. It's stiffer than stock at setting 6 on street but handles harsh impacts like potholes way better than the stock bilsteins. Much more confidence inspiring and the car has a much more solid/quality feel. I also run FM frame rails and adding them really lets the suspension do its job. Absolutely no regrets. The car sees autocross and a lot of street use.


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[kung fu jesus]

'92 here, I installed Xidas last month. 550#\350#, NB top hats. I switched to them from JIC FLT-A2 monotubes.

I use the car for daily and track. I have not tracked them yet, I am wrapping up an engine break-in. What I can tell you from my daily driving and a little aggressive mountain driving is the car feels far more elegant without the neurotic feel of the JICs. Firm, but compliant, never harsh. The level of grip is similar, but more communicative and eager. The JICs were bright, but more likely to punish a mistake.

Like others have said, road irregularities and potholes are absorbed, not allowed to beat you up. It's not a WRC dampened ride, but I feel more confident in the car than before. I had the JICs on the car for about 40k miles.

I should have a better account when I get to the track. I will attack curbing when I need to and it was always an exciting proposition with the JICs. They could be a bit Jeckyl & Hyde with their valving, so driving them hard could be a strong fight for control. Gladly, I haven't felt anything in the Xidas so far that would remotely feel that frenetic.

My wife actually enjoys riding in this car again, too. This car and the chassis is fairly heavily modified.

[949 Racing]

Post your Tecna and Xida coilover questions here and we'll do our best to answer them.
Tecna for 90-05
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