The truth about Rota wheels

[Greasemonkey2000]

Yes I have my flame retardant suit on! In all seriousness the subject of 'knock off' wheels is a common subject on car forums. Said subject was recently brought up on another forum when someone asked about Rota wheels and why people told him to get 'real wheels'. Of course one of the very first responses was typical and went something like this:


Simply put, Rota is the Chinese knock off brand of the wheel world. They copy good quality, expensive wheels, and make them heavy, weak, and cheap.

The reason they're popular and well known is the same reason Raceland products are: they're cheap.

Kids who work at McDonald's and live with their parents can afford to buy them and put them on the car mom and dad bought them.

So they do, and they have no idea how bad they are, so they write on their forum how "great" they are. Soon, there are a ton of "resources" available online that say that Rota wheels or Raceland performance products are "just fine, don't let the naysayers get you down".

Simply put, they're Cheap Chinese Junk that was made to be sold to "Rinky Racers", "Ricers", and "Stance Bros". (to use the terms from my father's generation, my generation, and the current generation, respectively).

They just got big and famous because "broke high schooler wanting a cool car" is a huge market.


Now that we have a typical response lacking any facts I think it is time for actual facts and less opinion/'internet gossip'.

Here are some actual facts:
https://www.autoindustriya.com/features/how-rota-wheels-are-made.html

http://custompinoyrides.com/2012/03/question-on-durability-of-rota-wheels/

Here is probably one of the most important facts from the above article:
"Fact 2: ROTA Wheels meet all JWL and VIA standards. Because they’re supposed to!

Would you be surprised if I told you that ROTA is probably the one who manufactured the OEM wheels for that car sitting in your garage? Yes, the ROTA plant is one of the biggest manufacturers of OEM wheels for various brands like Mitsubishi, Isuzu, Ford, Nissan, Toyota, and Mazda.

Who else is in this type of business, you might ask? Well, in terms of large-scale OEM wheel manufacturing, ROTA’s biggest competitor is Enkei.

So before we*proceed*any further, let’s*define both JWL and VIA:

“JWL” (Japan Light Wheel Alloy) is a compilation of standards defined by the Japanese Government to ensure the vehicle’s safety for aluminum road wheels. Every wheel put to market must be tested to meet JWL standards before a wheel can be put out to market in Japan.

These standards are generally accepted worldwide as acceptable for most road conditions. That is why you will see these marks on European and other Asian country wheels.

“VIA” (Vehicle Inspection Association Registration System). VIA marking can only be engraved on the wheel if registered by Japan Light Alloy Automotive Wheel Testing Council after strict quality tests by the authorized testing facility on the adaptability of JWL or JWL-T (Japan Light*Alloy Wheel*Truck & Bus) technical standard.

While other brands advertise that they have their own “additional” test standards that they say are higher than that of JWL and VIA (e.g. JWL+R for Rays Engineering, Spec-E for Enkei), ROTA Wheels also does their own additional tests like Rays and Enkei, although they just don’t advertise it (maybe they should). Why do you think the OEMs trust ROTA to manufacture their OEM wheels? To stay competitive in the OEM Wheel Manufacturing business, they must show the OEMs that ROTA’s standards are better than others, and even better than what has been set by JWL and VIA.

To sum it all up, the JWL and VIA standards have been set and are accepted worldwide for*aluminum road wheels*for*most road conditions. Putting these wheels, or any other wheels for that matter (meeting JWL and VIA standards), under anything outside of most road conditions, will test the limits of the wheels.

But hey, isn’t it the same with any other part of your car that you put to the test in rigorous motorsports conditions? Remember, a chain is no stronger than its weakest link. So I urge you to go and ask the motorsports teams who use ROTA wheels what is usually the first part of their cars that fail. With the big fat budgets of motorsports teams, would you think they would be using ROTA wheels if it were their weakest link?"

If you don't like reading....
https://youtu.be/FnjwtO5nTPA

How Rota wheels are tested:
https://youtu.be/s4O0iBAGffY

How Rays Engineering wheels are tested:
https://youtu.be/PNbHWHVax7c

Hope the information helps! Undoubtedly some will spew acid in my face for not accepting internet conjecture but forums are supposed to be about education/facts and not just opinion.

Are there better wheels in terms of durability, absolutely as these are cast wheels and not forged or similar but said forged or similar wheels will cost x2-x3 more typically so as the consumer it is up to you to consider ALL THE FACTS and then make an educated decision....or just keep drinking the koolaid. :door:

[Roadster7]

Informative write-up.

However. Wheel "enthusiasts" don't like Rota and companies like them because of the obvious design copies, not because the wheels might be structurally inferior. That's what I think when I hear knock-off wheels at least.

Think about it with this example. Rays spent time, money, and lots of effort to create a great design with the TE37/V. They sell them for what they are worth. Rota copies this design and sells the Grid/V for a fraction of the price. Even the naming convention is similar. Do you think this is fair to Rays? I don't think so.

[Greasemonkey2000]

@Roadster7: I hear you but how many truly original ideas/designs exist anymore when it comes to wheels? Most are based/inspired by another.

I think the subject is blurred by personal opinions by most, including myself. I have a problem with companies that intentionally copy a design then produce a product without any quality control and then intentionally try to pass them off as the original.

Did RS Watanabe originate the 'banana spoke' wheel? No but they executed it better than anyone else, at least in my opinion.

I truly believe that anyone that truly wants 'the best' will save and buy such and companies that offer a cheaper option is not losing any amount of real business as most individuals that bought the cheaper alternative puts spending as little as possible first before anything else.

Very few take in all the facts when considering a purchase, I do or at least try. I bought 15x8 Konig Flatout's vs Volk CE28 because they were lighter (iirc), well built and more than half the price of Volk's, thus a better value imo but this time chose to buy Enkei RPF1's vs Konig Wideopen's because the Enkei RPF1's were the better value, imo.

I'm still considering a set of 'banana spoke' wheels and RS Watanabe's and Rota RB are the likely candidates. Again it won't come down to just $$$ but overall value, which is determined by the consumer ultimately.

This thread is by no means meant to promote Rota wheels but to debunk much of the inaccurate information about the subject. There is no denying the superior quality of such wheels as Rays, Enkei, Watanabe, SSR, BBS, etc. but there are so many consumers with different needs/wants/budgets that a wheel company shouldn't be judged solely on misinformation.

My intention is to share actual facts with the community without any bias affecting the message. :bow:

[tsingson]

I stopped at the "Chinese knock off." Rota is actually a Philippine based company. But for me, whatever anyone wants to put on their car is fine. I know/knew many people that ran them and them hard and had no issues. I also read stories on the internet that would give me nightmares. If you can shell out the money for expensive brand wheels, by all means. Its no different than shoe companies, jeans, you name it. How many coilover companies are out there? How about fender flares? Seats? Just worry about your own cars and build it the way you want. You don't like the cheap wheels? Don't buy them. And for those who sit there and say it takes money away from the "real" manufacturers, how is it any different than the internet stores and big box stores that close our local stuff? Never thought I would see the day where there are no Radio Shacks and Toys R Us around. Money is going to go where it goes. You just have to change with the times, right?

[Roadster7]

And for those who sit there and say it takes money away from the "real" manufacturers, how is it any different than the internet stores and big box stores that close our local stuf?

That's definitely not the same situation, this isn't about resellers vs manufacturers.

I agree that you should buy whatever you want to buy, and run whatever wheels you want. Not everyone has to buy expensive wheels. When it comes to blatant copies of a product though, purchasing from those companies only supports this trend. You can apply this to whatever product you want, the takeaway is the same. I think plenty of people would be up in arms if some company started making 6UL lookalikes and selling them for half of 949's price.

[Phatmiata]

...... I think plenty of people would be up in arms if some company started making 6UL lookalikes and selling them for half of 949's price.


But someone already does, I have seen them overseas already, and yes the owner is aware of them as well .......

[Agent☣Orange]

This is a contentious issue for sure. I think the distinction really is whether identical products are being passed off as original which would of course mean counterfeit and that has legal implications. If a product is wildly successful, the originator would have to be wildly naïve to believe that it won't be copied next week.

[Roadster7]

But someone already does, I have seen them overseas already, and yes the owner is aware of them as well .......

Nice.

Again - buy what you want to buy. +0 is classic and never goes out of style...

[tsingson]

I agree with AO. Rota hasn't called the Grids TEs. They sell it as their own. I would agree if they were trying to sell them as authentic TEs.

[Paul B]

Ive owned knockoff work equips. (Drag Dr-something) Its what I could afford at the time. But Even now exactly 10yrs later I dont think I could pony up the cash for real Work Equips. Maybe if i was swimming in money.

Build the car you want however you can as long as it doesnt sacrifice your safety.

Im sure we've all seen the photos of Wheel failures in extreme cases from every popular brand, knockoff or not.

Recently bought new wheels. Almost went with knockoff Wats made by Rota. What steered me away was weight. I didnt want such a heavy wheel. If the Rota or Atara design i was looking at were a few lbs lighter I would have those in my hands now.

Had a laugh when I opened my brand new 6ULs to have it say "made in china". I just want nice wheels for a decent price.


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[Agent☣Orange]

Unless stuff is actually proven dangerous, always invest in your house or retirement plan. Nobody else is going to.

[Demon I Am]

That's definitely not the same situation, this isn't about resellers vs manufacturers.



So how do you feel about generic medication? Should I really be spending $700/month on the researched and branded medication
, versus a $5 copay for the generics?

[Demon I Am]

Unless stuff is actually proven dangerous, always invest in your house or retirement plan. Nobody else is going to.

This. Cars and car parts are nothing but a depreciating money pit, if you let them be. Look at all the modded cars that have "OMG OVER 30k INVESTED" only to be sold for 15K or less.

[kung fu jesus]

https://i.imgur.com/qWPwYmD.jpg

[Roadster7]

So how do you feel about generic medication? Should I really be spending $700/month on the researched and branded medication
, versus a $5 copay for the generics?

Again not the same thing, but I don't know why this is being taken so seriously by you guys. Like I said, buy whatever you want to buy, what do I care lol. My view is valid and so too are the other views that were brought up by others. There isn't a wrong opinion here.

[Demon I Am]

Never being too serious. If someone takes pride in knowing "shit's legit" then all the better. If you're broke and you gotta fake the funk, that's all good too. I've bought high-end stuff that was pure garbage, and I've bought the cheap shit that was perfect quality. It's all a gamble.

[BoBo]

I've had many Rota wheel sets in my life and I have nothing bad to say about it. It was there for me at the tracks and a few AutoX events. From experience, Rota wheels works well in low HP/Torque cars. I've seen them crack on Evo's and STI's in one of the track events that I attended to back in the days. At the same time, I've witnessed OEM and various aftermarket wheels go bad as well. Anything can happen when pushed to the limits.

The only time that I experienced negative comments about Rotas were from the JMD crowd. I never cared about what people said to me when I had my Slipstreams, I cared about what the wheels could do for me which was a lot at the time, when I was still in JC.

People have a budget, it's what you do with your budget that will make it count in the long run.

[freedomgli]

So instead of Rays Engineering being the quality wheel supplier to OEMs, you have Rota. If not for blatant copying of other companies hard work Rota would not be where they are today.

[freedomgli]

People have a budget, it's what you do with your budget that will make it count in the long run.
Rota and companies like them distort people's perceptions of quality and cost in a bad way IMO. They do real harm to other businesses and ultimately harm the hobby we all love. When there is no more originators to copy from, what will all the copycats do then? Innovate? Yeah, right. If your budget is small then maybe aftermarket wheels shouldn't be a consideration until you've saved up more money.

It's not like those other businesses can't compete in the marketplace. It's that companies like Rota, XXR and others dishonestly undercut their competition. Life is not fair. Trademark and design patent infringement litigation is easier said than done especially across international borders. The WTO is a joke for small companies like Rays, SSR, Weds, etc. So they just take it on the chin and hope that enough customers value originality, innovation and high-quality to keep them in business. Think of Rota customers as people who buy a cheap unlicensed print of a Salvador Dali painting from Taobao and Rays customers as patrons of the arts who help those artists live and breathe and create new beauty in this world.

[tsingson]

While I do love SSR, Rays, brands like that, if it isn't them, it will be somebody else. Somebody will always be around to innovate, create new unique things. Just the way it is. Just buy what you want to buy. I had WideOpens on my NB before and the only reason I went to RPF1s is because I like the way the spokes look on the 15x8 +28mm. I prefer the lip of the WideOpens though.

Main point still is it's your car, do what you want to it.

[RustRat]

I like certain Rota Wheels. Would rock them as second/daily set. Quality is pretty good nowadays, availability isn’t an issue, and they are pretty cheap.

Yeah, they are rip-offs, but I’ve seen several “Quality” wheel brands start as replica manufacturers, and now they are considered as a legit option, being lightweight, flowformed etc.


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[BoBo]

If your budget is small then maybe aftermarket wheels shouldn't be a consideration until you've saved up more money.

It's that companies like Rota, XXR and others dishonestly undercut their competition. Life is not fair.

To be honest, I couldn't find OEM wheels at the time and I'm not gonna miss a track event for that, my time is worth more. Obviously, Rota is not the best out there, but as far as I know that company is running their business within the law, at least at the time I bought from them, so it should be OK. Were they in legal issues before ? If so, then my mistake I shouldn't have bought from them.

At the time I had Rotas I was still in junior college, so my funds were limited since I was all on my own. I was a Full-Time worker and Student. It's not an excuse it's my reasoning. My priority was to graduate and I made sacrifices to make that happen. Fast forward to the present, buying wheels is the least of my worries now.

As you mentioned, life is not fair. It's a competitive world and people will buy what they want. I think most people will do whats best for them first before anything though. The tuition goes up every semester in college and it's not stopping anytime soon, but what can I do, so I take it to the chin. It's a cut throat world, but it's within the law and it sucks.

I just wanna put it out there, I don't care what wheels everyone here has. This is still the best Miata forum:)

[Greasemonkey2000]

So instead of Rays Engineering being the quality wheel supplier to OEMs, you have Rota. If not for blatant copying of other companies hard work Rota would not be where they are today.

Kyle do you actually read any of the links provided or do any research? If not then the comment is purely based on a bias attitude toward what you view as a purely 'replica' company which is inaccurate because the MAJORITY of the wheels are not 'replica' wheels.

This sort of bias view is exactly why I created the thread, education based on facts. Let's look at some more facts, when some of these companies were founded as many think Rota has only been around a couple of decades.

Founded:
BBS-1970
Compomotive-1973
Enkei-1950
HRE-1979
OZ Racing-1971
Rays Engineering- 1973
Rota-1976
RS Watanabe-1968
SSR-1971
Work-1977

So Rota has been around for almost 42 years, a major manufacturer for both oem and aftermarket wheels(114 designs currently), produce wheels that meet JWL & VIA safety standards and provide TUV certification(where as some of the other major manufacturers listed above do not) and this still warrants such hatred? I don't get it but I just hoped to provide ACTUAL FACTS and instead of just internet opinion/gossip that is typically associated with the subject.

To me it is like judging/forming an opinion about someone based SOLELY on the negative things you have heard/read instead of finding out who they truly are before making up your mind.

[tsingson]

Great info Chad but unfortunately, it's all for nothing. People are going to believe what they believe regardless of facts. This goes for a lot of things nowadays. No point in trying to change it even though your intentions are good. I actually appreciate the information. Did not even know they were around this long. I only started hearing about them in the mid 90s.

[freedomgli]

Were they in legal issues before ? If so, then my mistake I shouldn't have bought from them.
You're confusing what's legal with what's ethical. They are not the same thing.

[Roadster7]

Kyle do you actually read any of the links provided or do any research? If not then the comment is purely based on a bias attitude toward what you view as a purely 'replica' company which is inaccurate because the MAJORITY of the wheels are not 'replica' wheels.

This sort of bias view is exactly why I created the thread, education based on facts. Let's look at some more facts, when some of these companies were founded as many think Rota has only been around a couple of decades.


If you're going to bring up bias, let's include a quote from your other thread on CR.


that video "the truth on rota wheels" is pretty biased since they dont sell rays, but they sure as hell sell rotas.

...



You're confusing what's legal with what's ethical. They are not the same thing.

Also, this. Very much this.

[freedomgli]

Kyle do you actually read any of the links provided or do any research?
Yes. I've read all those links and seen all those videos before and skimmed them again before I replied. Remember, I'm ancient. I've been around a long time and I've been eating, sleeping, living, breathing cars and motorcycles for decades.



If not then the comment is purely based on a bias attitude toward what you view as a purely 'replica' company which is inaccurate because the MAJORITY of the wheels are not 'replica' wheels.
We are all biased. I am biased against Rota. You are biased for Rota. Just because they make OEM wheels and private label designs doesn't change the fact they're widely known for ripping off other wheel designs.

When you say "majority," what's your basis? Are you saying that most of their production volume on a per wheel basis is not replica wheels? Or are you saying that the majority of their wheel designs are not replicas? Heck, even Michael Rojas, president of Philippine Aluminum Wheels, Inc. (PAWI), admits that "Rota releases about 4 designs in a month, a mix of aftermarket and original equipment (OE) design wheels. We get our designs from magazines, mostly influenced by Japanese wheel designs, some designs are specified by customers." We can argue what it means for a design to be "influenced by" versus "blatant copying" but it's bound to go nowhere.



This sort of bias view is exactly why I created the thread, education based on facts. Let's look at some more facts, when some of these companies were founded as many think Rota has only been around a couple of decades.
Their longevity has little to do with this argument other than they likely wouldn't be in business today or where they're at if not for ripping off other companies' designs.



So Rota has been around for almost 42 years, a major manufacturer for both oem and aftermarket wheels(114 designs currently), produce wheels that meet JWL & VIA safety standards and provide TUV certification(where as some of the other major manufacturers listed above do not) and this still warrants such hatred?
The only companies that jump through the hoops to get TUV certification are those selling wheels in Europe. It's nice to have but it doesn't mean much to me, epsecially since most TUV wheels are way overbuilt. Good for a heavy street car, perhaps, but not generally what I want on my Miata. It's kind of like CARB certification. You only get it if you want to sell equipment in states that follow CARB regulations. Otherwise, it's unnecessary.

Once again, 42 years doesn't impress me. Certifications are nice but they're not the be all, end all of quality. I don't hate Rota. I just don't support their business practices.



I don't get it but I just hoped to provide ACTUAL FACTS and instead of just internet opinion/gossip that is typically associated with the subject.
In case you hadn't heard, we live in a post-fact world now. Not that I don't appreciate ACTUAL FACTS. Because I do. Because I'm an honorable man and not a piece of crap. But the facts that you shared don't do much to dispel my negative opinion of Rota as a cheap wheel manufacturer who got where they are today by stepping on the feet of others.

[Professor Dwight]

*pot stirring*

Setting aside quality issues or lack thereof for a moment...

What is one to do for sizes and fitments that were never available/continue to be not available from the original manufacturer?

What if one really wants Star Sharks but doesn't like the limits imposed in a 13"-14" tire size? What's "wrong" with a good 15" rep in that scenario?
What if one really wants Work Equip 03s but doesn't like the limits imposed by a low/zero offset? What's "wrong" with a Rota Flashback in an et40 in that scenario?
What if one really wants SSR Longchamps (which haven't been in production by SSR for years)? What's "wrong" with Rota XRs in that scenario?
What if the lineage of the wheel design is highly suspect or convulated? E.g., Minilites -> Panasports -> Watanabe RS-8 -> Mazda Daisies -> MINI 8-spokes -> Chapparals -> Rota RBs -> Konig Rewinds -> Enkei Classic Comp Es. How is the average consumer to know which are legit and licensed designs (if any) and which are "fakes" and thus shouldn't be supported on moral grounds? I'd wager in the case of this particular wheel, most enthusiasts don't even know.

Point being, in some cases aren't reps the only viable option for that person, especially since the manufacturer is not exploiting the design in market? After all, it's not as if the original manufacturer is "losing" a sale in those situations, as the manufacturer has nothing to sell.

XOXOXO,
Dwight, Watanabe RS-8 and SSR Competition Type C owner

[BoBo]

You're confusing what's legal with what's ethical. They are not the same thing.

Well, to me the Law comes first, especially if the subject is about material things. However, I respect your opinion.

[BoBo]

. I actually appreciate the information. Did not even know they were around this long. I only started hearing about them in the mid 90s.

Same here, I had no idea about Rota being around for 4 decades. Because of this Thread topic I looked it up, thanks to the OP:
https://www.autoindustriya.com/features/how-rota-wheels-are-made.html

I know for a fact that most wheel manufacturers have to pass certain quality control inspections and that's good enough for me. I'm out.

[Greasemonkey2000]

@Roadster7: lol, that doesn't change the facts. I read every link I provided and watched the videos and did my best to confirm the facts before hand.


@Freedomgli: Of course everyone's opinion is biased which is why I was tring my best just to lay out the facts and leave my personal opinions aside.

I don't believe I'm biased towards Rota, why would I be. I have never bought their wheels, don't recommend them on any amount of frequency(can't recall ever recommending them TBH), don't have any vested interest but I have/am considering a set of RB's.

I do however believe in free commerce and don't begrudge one for its success(if achieved legally/ethically). Many feel the same as you about large chain stores as they have caused many 'mom and pop' businesses to close.

As the saying goes 'there is nothing new under the sun' and that can/could apply to wheels. Most wheel companies have similar wheel designs and Rota doesn't hide the fact they have used other wheels for inspiration but they AREN'T trying to pass them off as something they are not or claiming all their designs are original.

I see no reason to continue this discussion as it seems to be getting no where. I apologize if any one was offended by the thread but I put a fair amount of effort in collecting and ensuring the information gathered was accurate.

I feel my original goal was achieved, education of myself and others. Thanks to everyone who appreciates my effort to help out the community as that was my ONLY intention.


P.S.- @BoBo: I actually found that same article a few hours before you and added to the original post.:lol:

[Roadster7]

TL;DR: Rota rip off wheel designs from other companies and do it in a way that meets industry standards. Not literally fake wheels.

/thread

[Greasemonkey2000]

A little necro-bump...I just wanted to say how much I appreciate this forum and the people on it. Of the three Miata forums I post on I can honestly say that this forum "gets along" the best. This thread is a perfect example, while everyone expressed their opinion/viewpoints...no one "took it too far" but was respectful and kept it civil.

I truly think that is awesome, so thanks to everyone that shared in this discussion and posts on this forum and contributes to such a great environment! :slayer: :drinkto:

[flooglemop]

Well, to me the Law comes first, especially if the subject is about material things. However, I respect your opinion.

Ontologically speaking, ethics necessarily precedes civil law and provides the basis for the latter. We're that not the case, one would have no ethical duty to obey civil law, nor does civil law justify itself. Without ethics, civil powers would be acting without any legitimate authority and would instead be a form of tyranny... A bit off-topic, I realize, but personal preferences have no logical relevance when assessing the nature of ethics; it's not as if one can rationally prioritize ethics and civil law by way of subjective opinion.