PDA

View Full Version : Coilover at $1200 price point? So many options >_<



xjdesertfox
04-04-2012, 02:05 PM
So, as some of you have seen my build, Im building a car for light track use(hpde, adams motorsports park, etc), autox, and to hit the local canyons.

The car spends the majority of its time in the canyons and at adam's(for those of you who dont know, think go kart track).

The time has come where I need new suspension, the car has some non-oem branded oem type shocks with lowering springs and its killing me, and my passengers.

I need a suspension that will handle decently well, while not washing out in the rough road.

My options:

Koni + GC 450f/300r + FCM mounting setup = $1200 (I hear the excessive rebound of konis may cause washout over rough road?)

Koni + GC 375f/250r + FCM mounting setup = $1200 (Lower rates that the konis can handle better?)

949racing Tein street advance setup (NB top hats, 9k/6k springs) = $1150 (I hear good and bad about tein, Halp?)

Rspeed Fortune Auto coilover setup = $1100 (Im only mildly considering this, Ive heard good and bad, and I havnt seen enough about them to really trust fortune auto)

Megan Street coilovers 10k/8k springs = $850 (Greenteee halp? Ive seen the dyno plots, people say they dont look great...but I dont know how to read dyno plots so I have no clue?)




Or should I not even be considering this price point? Should I save up for 6 months just to buy some xida's or FCM's? Im on a college student budget here.

The koni setup seems nice because it has a lifetime warranty on everything, while everything else has a 1 year warranty... But on the flip side konis are hell to revalve, while teins are rebuild/revalveable here in cali.

I've ridden in koni cars, but never with linear spring rates. I've never been in a car with fortune autos. I've seen tein flex setups perform well, and my buddy is supposed to let me drive his car with megan EZ's on it pretty soon.

The Platypus
04-04-2012, 03:41 PM
Save some more and get FCMs like me. Honestly, you won't regret it.

kung fu jesus
04-04-2012, 04:48 PM
I have to throw this out there, but read up on how to decipher shock dynos and how they relate to your driving requirements. It takes a little reading to grasp the info, bit it will help you make a better decision. All of your choices are from top notch Miata vendors. $1100 is nothing to sneeze at, so rather than taking a risk on subjective opinions start by qualifying your search by learning the data. Good luck! :)

The Driver
04-04-2012, 04:58 PM
Save some more and get FCMs like me. Honestly, you won't regret it.

I'll be going that route, but man 1700 mollars is A LOT of mullah!!!

adamvanxxx
04-04-2012, 05:32 PM
Heard/read SO much about how awesome the Xida CS is, if it were my money I would put it there.

stormin'norman
04-04-2012, 05:49 PM
Haven't been on the Xida's in particular(obviously people love them) but from some sour experiences with other AST models/ and the company as a whole at work I personally wouldn't recommend it. However having been in a FCM equipped Miata I would gravitate that way or Ohlins DFV (awesome).

Should also throw this out and mention I've spent time chasing Ohlins DFV and Tein Monoflex equipped Miatas at ORP and there was a blatant night and day difference in cornering speeds between my car (Basic 8/6k) and the DFV 8/6 whereas only marginal difference in cornering speeds vs my friend's 10/8k Monoflex.

concealer404
04-04-2012, 05:51 PM
Mmmmmmmmm Ohlins mmmmmmmmmmmm

stormin'norman
04-04-2012, 05:58 PM
Should also make note of the obvious wait times that seem to come with FCM products. But well worth it is what I hear from everyone I've talked to that purchased.

concealer404
04-04-2012, 06:01 PM
Should also make note of the obvious wait times that seem to come with FCM products. But well worth it is what I hear from everyone I've talked to that purchased.

When i was in Grand Junction with my MSM, there was a guy that i hung out with for 2 days that had a CHERRY red n/a with an FCM setup. It seemed to handle extremely well. I had to hustle pretty hard to stay with him. Looked very composed. I'd be interested to see how it would react being pushed to 9/10s or 10/10s.

stormin'norman
04-04-2012, 06:26 PM
When i was in Grand Junction with my MSM, there was a guy that i hung out with for 2 days that had a CHERRY red n/a with an FCM setup. It seemed to handle extremely well. I had to hustle pretty hard to stay with him. Looked very composed. I'd be interested to see how it would react being pushed to 9/10s or 10/10s.

Unfortunately I've only experienced FCM's on the street and with surprisingly mild spring rates ~375/250 iirc. I was really shocked with how much grip was made available to the car. Mid corner bumps were absorbed in stride at just about any speed. The car was never upset by potholes, seams and imperfections but just felt very very sporty and taught without being too harsh so as to lose grip. Great street setup that really made Shaihks shock knowledge shine. I imagine something more track oriented would be equally as incredible.

xjdesertfox
04-04-2012, 07:31 PM
Wow this is really making me reconsider some fcm's. The fact that he just raised his price to $1750 makes it harder though :(


Maybe ill send him a message. If not, I think ill go the tein route.

The Platypus
04-04-2012, 09:48 PM
I'll be going that route, but man 1700 mollars is A LOT of mullah!!!

Yeah, and the wait time was almost unbearable. But I pretty much fell in love with my car again (and twice as hard) after installing them and driving on them for the first time.
I have never drove on any other aftermarket suspension though, so I can't say that FCMs are better than blah blah, but I can say that I would definitely buy them again.

The Driver
04-04-2012, 10:01 PM
Yeah, and the wait time was almost unbearable. But I pretty much fell in love with my car again (and twice as hard) after installing them and driving on them for the first time.
I have never drove on any other aftermarket suspension though, so I can't say that FCMs are better than blah blah, but I can say that I would definitely buy them again.
How long ago did you order/get them? I know someone who just got the "new" FCM's and the wait was six weeks...

The Platypus
04-04-2012, 10:59 PM
How long ago did you order/get them? I know someone who just got the "new" FCM's and the wait was six weeks...

I ordered them back in October/early November. I think I was one of the first to get the "new" ones, but I got them for the previous price (I think mine were possibly the first to be painted like that. He also used them for the pictures I think). I received them in mid to late January I think

bedheadben
04-05-2012, 12:16 AM
Ohlins if you've got the dough, but for $1200 I'd say Tein for sure.

stormin'norman
04-05-2012, 01:00 AM
Ohlins if you've got the dough, but for $1200 I'd say Tein for sure.

Mhmm
8 or9/6k Flex. Racing Beat tubular fsb, bushings, tires and alignment. Should keep you busy for a lonngg time.

xjdesertfox
04-05-2012, 03:52 PM
That's sort of the plan. Is ride height adjustability via perches(independent of pre-load) a big deal?

bedheadben
04-05-2012, 03:54 PM
No, it never was important at all to me when I had my Koni's.

concealer404
04-05-2012, 03:58 PM
That's sort of the plan. Is ride height adjustability via perches(independent of pre-load) a big deal?

It can be handy, but it's not something i would specifically search out if it means you have to go a step down in quality.

Quality first, blingy features second.


Do i enjoy that adjustability on my Celica? Absolutely.
Am i mad that i don't have it on the Escort? Nope.

xjdesertfox
04-05-2012, 04:48 PM
As of now unless anything changes or I find something used, its looking like tein street advance with 9/6 rates is winning, atleast in my mind.

wannafbody
04-05-2012, 10:44 PM
I have SD Bilsteins and think that they are a great product but Bernie has had issues with being overworked by big race teams.

The Driver
04-05-2012, 10:48 PM
I have SD Bilsteins and think that they are a great product but Bernie has had issues with being overworked by big race teams.

He also has other problems. I don't mean to be nasty, but that man has burned more bridges than the Roman Empire...

concealer404
04-06-2012, 08:56 AM
As of now unless anything changes or I find something used, its looking like tein street advance with 9/6 rates is winning, atleast in my mind.

There's a set of Ohlins for sale on either this board or the other that isn't a whole lot more than $1200... :lol:

EMMI
04-06-2012, 11:16 AM
flex =]

xjdesertfox
04-08-2012, 06:17 PM
flex =]

You think flex with ots rates will be better than 9/6 SA with NB top mounts?

The Platypus
04-08-2012, 06:33 PM
May I ask why you are pretty much set on Teins? I'm not putting the idea down, I'm just wondering. I wanted Teins too before. Are you pretty much getting them just because they are Teins?

stormin'norman
04-08-2012, 10:33 PM
You think flex with ots rates will be better than 9/6 SA with NB top mounts?

I think it would be marginal if any. It believe the SS/SA/Flex are internally valved identically. Only advantage the Flex has is the adjustable shock body (not really all that necessary) and pillow ball mounts.

xjdesertfox
04-08-2012, 11:10 PM
May I ask why you are pretty much set on Teins? I'm not putting the idea down, I'm just wondering. I wanted Teins too before. Are you pretty much getting them just because they are Teins?

I actually dont have preference to any brand. Im going with teins because I cant feel like I cant get anything better for the price, brand new.

Im open to any other ideas you may have?

EMMI
04-08-2012, 11:18 PM
i'm running the regular 7/6 rates and i'm on my 2nd set. after 30k, i sold my first set... couldnt find anything else so i just bought another set =P

for the reason is because it can do everything pretty well... I can slam for car shows one weekend, set it up for some functional track or autox abuse another, change it around for a drift event but still be comfortable on the street. having easy access to an alignment machine makes it even more convenient to achieve this too.

The Platypus
04-09-2012, 12:00 AM
I actually dont have preference to any brand. Im going with teins because I cant feel like I cant get anything better for the price, brand new.

Im open to any other ideas you may have?

Well I'm still biased towards FCMs. Teins are good too. Do you NEED the coilovers now? Because if you save up a little bit more, you can then choose between FCMs, Tein Mono Flex etc.

stormin'norman
04-09-2012, 12:27 AM
Well I'm still biased towards FCMs. Teins are good too. Do you NEED the coilovers now? Because if you save up a little bit more, you can then choose between FCMs, Tein Mono Flex etc.

Monos are nice. They need quite a bit of tire though to keep the car under you though. One of my track buddy's has them on his '94 and his 205 Re11's provide barely enough grip to really work the shocks and spring rates. His 205/50 Hoozier SM6's are more ideal.

The Platypus
04-09-2012, 12:32 AM
Ah, I didn't know that. I guess I never really thought about it though since it was not one of the options I was looking at when I got my suspension sorted.

stormin'norman
04-09-2012, 12:51 AM
Ah, I didn't know that. I guess I never really thought about it though since it was not one of the options I was looking at when I got my suspension sorted.

I would certainly not discount it. Very nice kit. But it's probably more than what's needed for a car that might see street use. I'd probably go the FCM route for that kind of money.

xjdesertfox
04-09-2012, 01:06 AM
Well I'm still biased towards FCMs. Teins are good too. Do you NEED the coilovers now? Because if you save up a little bit more, you can then choose between FCMs, Tein Mono Flex etc.

Im actually researching now for about a month down the road. A roll bar is the immediate priority right now which I'm using my money for.

But that just means more time for research!

Also, If I'm going to step over the $1200 price point, Im not stopping anywhere up the ladder until I hit basic xida's for $2100.

The Platypus
04-09-2012, 01:10 AM
Good idea. Don't limit yourself to a price like that. You could always save some more and get what you really want.

blackdbl9NB
04-10-2012, 12:45 PM
Sounds like you have a pretty good grasp on what you want, so what I have to say will mean little to nothing. My NB has Megan EZ-Streets on it. I am looking forward to the day I can take them off and get something better. I will be selling these things cheap when the time comes too. I do not like the setup in the least. I don't mind a stiff ride, but something about these just seems punishing as you drive down the street. I don't have them slammed, in fact I raised the car up from where the previous owner had the car set. The ride quality did improve some, but not enough to justify keeping them.

xjdesertfox
04-20-2012, 01:44 AM
Ive been reading more and more. Although my mind changes a ton, I'm leaning towards flex now. A) because I can get flex in my price range from a vendor B) Because I've been reading that flex is better for the height i'd like to be at (~12")

xjdesertfox
05-03-2012, 06:53 PM
has anybody in this thread ridden in a car on AST's?

Thinking on "do it once, do it right" im really tempted to put Xida's on my car. Especially if there is a noticeable difference over flex.

TheQuickness
05-04-2012, 11:20 PM
What about BC Racing BR's? My friend seems to enjoy his quite alot. Does very well out at my local autocross league. Not that I know anything useful about his stuff. I am but a peon lol.

EMMI
05-07-2012, 03:51 AM
if u want it to be good at one thing, get the Xidas. Im sure those are really hardcore track worthy. if u want it to do everything really well (slam, drift, track, street), my vote still goes for Flex.

http://mazdaroadster.net/showthread.php?1248-Emmi&p=40167&viewfull=1#post40167

xjdesertfox
05-07-2012, 01:34 PM
You think I could get a ride in your car at the next kinod I make it to? Its looking like a 1000 dollar difference between flex and xida CS, so if the flex are that good, I dont see why I wouldnt get them. Theres just that burning thought in my mind, "what if I should have spent the extra for the xidas?"

bedheadben
05-07-2012, 01:56 PM
You think I could get a ride in your car at the next kinod I make it to? Its looking like a 1000 dollar difference between flex and xida CS, so if the flex are that good, I dont see why I wouldnt get them. Theres just that burning thought in my mind, "what if I should have spent the extra for the xidas?"

The Flex are really great and the average user who does mostly street and the occasional track day probably won't notice a difference. If you care about strictly performance though, the difference in damping is night and day between the Flex and Xida's. Xida's are up there with Ohlins and Moton, and a coilover you would never need to "upgrade" from.

Don't get me wrong though, the Flex are still a great track damper, just not on the same level. Different tools for different jobs.

949 Racing
05-13-2012, 05:42 PM
if u want it to be good at one thing, get the Xidas. Im sure those are really hardcore track worthy. if u want it to do everything really well (slam, drift, track, street), my vote still goes for Flex.

http://mazdaroadster.net/showthread.php?1248-Emmi&p=40167&viewfull=1#post40167
Emmi,

What direct personal experience do you have with the Xida's and Flex to support your suggestion that the Flex are better all around?

xjdesertfox
05-14-2012, 09:55 PM
Emmi,

What direct personal experience do you have with the Xida's and Flex to support your suggestion that the Flex are better all around?

I was hoping you would chime in here. Being that you sell flex and the ASTs.

What is your opinion on the matter? For a car that sees canyons with rough roads, track(more than likely local stuff like adams/SOW), and some street. The car
has 205 federal RSRs, and once I get more serious on the track, 225 NT01's.

Are the xidas superior in every aspect? What rates should I expect to run, I dont mind running super stiff rates on the street, but I'd like my car to resist getting upset by rough pavement. Should I stick with the 700/400? Or drop down a bit?

What about with flex? OTS rates? or 9/6k?

Phatmiata
05-24-2012, 12:39 PM
I think Steve @ R2-limited.com has xida's on his NA, maybe he can chime in too!? Im also in the market for coilovers, and I know there are more options than you can imagine, just pick up a HyperREV, its nuts!

Its great to have all the options, but gets confusing without much feedback from users, be it street guys, weekend racers, or full time race prepped cars.

The Driver
05-24-2012, 01:01 PM
I already pre order a set of FCM's. This will be my first set of adjustable coilovers EVER. Still working with Shaik as to which lbs for springs...

bubbagumpjoe
05-24-2012, 05:08 PM
I already pre order a set of FCM's. This will be my first set of adjustable coilovers EVER. Still working with Shaik as to which lbs for springs...


What is an FCM? Sorry, kinda new to this stuff.

psulja
05-24-2012, 06:55 PM
Fat Cat Motorsports. A brand of coilovers.

atlnb
05-26-2012, 09:23 AM
The Flex are really great and the average user who does mostly street and the occasional track day probably won't notice a difference. If you care about strictly performance though, the difference in damping is night and day between the Flex and Xida's. Xida's are up there with Ohlins and Moton, and a coilover you would never need to "upgrade" from.

Don't get me wrong though, the Flex are still a great track damper, just not on the same level. Different tools for different jobs.

I've had both the Flex and riding on Xida CS now. In terms of performance, they are both very well made. The damping adjustment is very distinct, very direct feel with the road. But the Xidas have a better damping curve and more suspension stroke than the Flex which makes me feel I can go faster while feeling more comfortable. The Xidas are hands down the thing I have bought for my car.

atlnb
05-26-2012, 09:27 AM
I was hoping you would chime in here. Being that you sell flex and the ASTs.

What is your opinion on the matter? For a car that sees canyons with rough roads, track(more than likely local stuff like adams/SOW), and some street. The car
has 205 federal RSRs, and once I get more serious on the track, 225 NT01's.

Are the xidas superior in every aspect? What rates should I expect to run, I dont mind running super stiff rates on the street, but I'd like my car to resist getting upset by rough pavement. Should I stick with the 700/400? Or drop down a bit?

What about with flex? OTS rates? or 9/6k?

I have 450 F & 300 R spring rates on mine, incredibly plush while still being able to push it hard. I use my car for mostly backroad driving & auto-x. 550/350 would still hold up well with daily driving and hold up better for the occasional track day.

xjdesertfox
05-26-2012, 10:45 AM
I understand that the xidas are indeed incredible, however everyone comparing them with flex also state that flex is very well built. For someone who is just starting to learn on the track, will i notice much of a difference now while I'm still trying to learn? Im just trying to justify the $900 cost difference between the flex and xida cs.

bedheadben
05-26-2012, 12:46 PM
I understand that the xidas are indeed incredible, however everyone comparing them with flex also state that flex is very well built. For someone who is just starting to learn on the track, will i notice much of a difference now while I'm still trying to learn? Im just trying to justify the $900 cost difference between the flex and xida cs.

I think you would definitely notice a difference, but it's just a matter of if that little extra handling is worth the money to you. Maybe you don't decide that it is, and that you just want a good, well built coilover for less money, then go with the Flex.

I personally am going to be putting Stance on my car and will be stocking them on the website pretty soon. That's my coilover of choice in the ~$1200 price range.

xjdesertfox
05-26-2012, 01:53 PM
Fair enough. Can you get me some Dyno plots on the stance coilovers? Have they fixed the adjuster problem? And PM me a price on them?

bedheadben
05-26-2012, 02:21 PM
Fair enough. Can you get me some Dyno plots on the stance coilovers? Have they fixed the adjuster problem? And PM me a price on them?

Getting that info for you right now. I think they may have recently undergone minor updates but I sent them an e-mail to check if/what was changed.

http://stance-usa.com/sus/images/stories/news/jeffABBOTT-xdc/6.jpg

atlnb
05-27-2012, 11:02 AM
I thought I saw Stance's dyno graphs on MT.net, but couldn't find them.

bedheadben
05-29-2012, 06:50 PM
I thought I saw Stance's dyno graphs on MT.net, but couldn't find them.

I've searched quite a bit and couldn't find them, and the rep didn't have them for me either. Maybe I will get a set dyno'd at some point.

I was told with confidence that they have undergone a lot of revisions and that all issues are solved.

atlnb
05-29-2012, 08:06 PM
I know I saw Emilio give a critique of them and commented on the graph on that site. Really wish I could find it..

atlnb
05-29-2012, 08:40 PM
hmmm.. got ninja'd, i haven't the slightest idea where i saw that.. oh well..

949 Racing
05-31-2012, 12:35 PM
I know I saw Emilio give a critique of them and commented on the graph on that site. Really wish I could find it..
http://clubroadster.net/vb_forum/showpost.php?p=228992&postcount=75

kung fu jesus
05-31-2012, 01:42 PM
speaking of ninja...

bedheadben
05-31-2012, 06:19 PM
http://clubroadster.net/vb_forum/showpost.php?p=228992&postcount=75

Thank you for that dyno and review Emilio, very constructive!

atlnb
05-31-2012, 06:56 PM
:ninja: Fuuuuuu!!!!

thanks Emilio!

xjdesertfox
06-01-2012, 07:18 PM
If any one is interested, I posted some shock dyno's i received from fortune auto on my build thread.

bedheadben
06-09-2012, 06:59 PM
More pictures in my thread here: http://mazdaroadster.net/showthread.php?2870-Stance-Coilovers-Coming-In!

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7242/7355912578_3fdc1d963f_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/benellett/7355912578/)
Stance Coilovers (http://www.flickr.com/photos/benellett/7355912578/) by bedheadben (http://www.flickr.com/people/benellett/), on Flickr

xjdesertfox
06-22-2012, 11:46 AM
For anyone still interested in the direction this thread went. I pretty much decided on the new GEN 4 FA500's that came out. I was at an utter standstill between stance GR+, tein flex, and the FA500's.

Why I'm picking the FA500s? Decent performance, dyno matched sets with included dyno of YOUR shocks, assembled in the USA, serviceable in the USA, and best of all... 5 year warranty.

http://www.fortune-auto.net/MOCK%20CUT%20AWAY%20ASSEMBLY%20500.jpg

Fortune auto now also offers the coilovers with tall or low springs. Im still trying to get info on what heights each spring achieves, but so far it was described to me as "low springs go SUPER low" "tall springs are functional"

xjdesertfox
07-17-2012, 12:36 PM
Just threw caution to the wind. I can no longer contribute to this thread. I doubled my budget and bought Xida CS w/ Helpers...

The Driver
07-17-2012, 12:42 PM
Just threw caution to the wind. I can no longer contribute to this thread. I doubled my budget and bought Xida CS w/ Helpers...

U can contribute still, last time I checked XIDA ownership was not illegal...


Shoot, I went FCM's!

xjdesertfox
07-17-2012, 12:43 PM
U can contribute still, last time I checked XIDA ownership was not illegal...


Shoot, I went FCM's!

Lol, I just feel like I made this giant deal to find the perfect coilovers for $1200, then I ran out and just bought some Xidas instead.

The Driver
07-17-2012, 12:47 PM
Lol, I just feel like I made this giant deal to find the perfect coilovers for $1200, then I ran out and just bought some Xidas instead.

Hey, it happens! ;)

bedheadben
07-17-2012, 02:37 PM
Nice! Looking forward to hearing your initial impressions!

VagaXt
07-17-2012, 03:31 PM
Lol, I just feel like I made this giant deal to find the perfect coilovers for $1200, then I ran out and just bought some Xidas instead.

I think I may be building your set today.

atlnb
07-17-2012, 05:11 PM
Just threw caution to the wind. I can no longer contribute to this thread. I doubled my budget and bought Xida CS w/ Helpers...

welcome to the club!

what spring rates did you get?

wannafbody
07-17-2012, 05:55 PM
I think most people would own Xidas if money wasn't an issue.

atlnb
07-17-2012, 05:58 PM
money is always an issue, i just had the opportunity to upgrade so i took it.

xjdesertfox
07-17-2012, 06:45 PM
I think I may be building your set today.

700/400 CS with helpers? Thats mine!

I'lll be there in the morning to pick them up =D

xjdesertfox
07-21-2012, 01:52 AM
Initial Xida impressions here...

http://mazdaroadster.net/showthread.php?1010-My-95-becomes-my-fun-track-toy-(WARNING-COLLEGE-BUILD-slow-progress)&p=52422&viewfull=1#post52422