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View Full Version : Tein or Raceland suspension?



BlueMotorsport
04-11-2012, 10:51 AM
Hey everybody, i am looking for a coilover suspension set for my 02 NB SE. Now here is the tricky part. I am looking at the tein suspension which costs around 850 shipped to my door, this set is adjustable for damping, but i also have the oppertunity to buy a raceland set for less then they are selling to the public for. My question is this. Will the ride be beyond horrible without having the ability to adjust the damping? And will the racelands last a decent amount of time? I don't do a lot of racing, but my car does see the track more then others. I want to stay cost effective, but i also don't want to put reliability and comfort into the danger zone. Let me thank you all ahead of time for your input. :domo:

concealer404
04-11-2012, 10:53 AM
Purely between those two options, Tein.

Mainly because they aren't Ricelands.

psulja
04-11-2012, 11:03 AM
Don't get the Racelands; you'll regret it. I had them on my car for 1.5 weeks before I took them off and sold them. Yes, they were that bad. Get the teins; even for the few times you're at the track you'll be glad you did. I had racelands on just on the streets and I hated them.

BlueMotorsport
04-11-2012, 11:16 AM
Don't get the Racelands; you'll regret it. I had them on my car for 1.5 weeks before I took them off and sold them. Yes, they were that bad. Get the teins; even for the few times you're at the track you'll be glad you did. I had racelands on just on the streets and I hated them.
this is what i wanted to hear thank you so much

psulja
04-11-2012, 11:20 AM
No problem, do it once, do it right. Go with the Tein's.

BlueMotorsport
04-11-2012, 11:28 AM
No problem, do it once, do it right. Go with the Tein's.

that's what I'm trying to do

Frenchmanremy
04-11-2012, 03:45 PM
No problem, do it once, do it right. Go with the Tein's.

By pure curiousity, why did you hate them so much?

The Platypus
04-11-2012, 04:11 PM
Because they suck

paulsk
04-11-2012, 04:22 PM
Racelands are fine for daily driving, but if you plan on going to the track (even if it's only a few times), definitely go for the Teins.

psulja
04-11-2012, 04:31 PM
By pure curiousity, why did you hate them so much?

They were way too soft for what I wanted, even on the street. The build quality was obviously not that great either. I regretted spending that money on them when I could have gotten something with proper spring rates that would've actually improved the handling characteristics of the car.

ThatWhiteNA
04-11-2012, 09:17 PM
Racelands literally feel softer than OEM suspension. I rode in a car that has them and I felt like we were sailing on a choppy lake. My vote's for Tein as well.

EMMI
04-12-2012, 02:20 AM
racelands to me tell me the kind of condition the rest of the car is in. SHIT. IMHO if the owner is not willing to spend money on better quality suspension parts then that owner is also not willing to spend money on the proper upkeep of his or her car.

working as tech focusing on front-end//suspension, (except for a few exceptions) I decline working and/or aligning miatas with racelands because too often have I encountered other problems which the owner should have taken care of. (missing alignment bolts, bend control arms, destroyed bushings, rounded off eccentric cams, etc etc)

BlueMotorsport
04-12-2012, 08:14 AM
racelands to me tell me the kind of condition the rest of the car is in. SHIT. IMHO if the owner is not willing to spend money on better quality suspension parts then that owner is also not willing to spend money on the proper upkeep of his or her car.

working as tech focusing on front-end//suspension, (except for a few exceptions) I decline working and/or aligning miatas with racelands because too often have I encountered other problems which the owner should have taken care of. (missing alignment bolts, bend control arms, destroyed bushings, rounded off eccentric cams, etc etc) not trying to rain on ur rant here, but my car is in fine condition thus me asking about the suspension components. I have done a tiny bit of research, and found suspension systems similar to the racelands ( non adjustable), and they wanted more then the tein coilovers are going for. Like stated before i want it to be cost effective, but after reading this i will go with the teins for sure. Thank you everybody

concealer404
04-12-2012, 08:38 AM
not trying to rain on ur rant here, but my car is in fine condition thus me asking about the suspension components. I have done a tiny bit of research, and found suspension systems similar to the racelands ( non adjustable), and they wanted more then the tein coilovers are going for. Like stated before i want it to be cost effective, but after reading this i will go with the teins for sure. Thank you everybody

I don't there's anything similar between Racelands and the suspension setups you're talking about, to be quite honest. No offense meant, just a statement. :)

Bryan
04-12-2012, 08:51 AM
Give any consideration to the VMaxx?

The Driver
04-12-2012, 09:04 AM
Give any consideration to the VMaxx?

I did. TEINs are rebuildable, Vmaxxs are not. That would be cool if Vmaxxs were guaranteed for life, but they only have a 24 month warranty.

stormin'norman
04-12-2012, 09:06 AM
Give any consideration to the VMaxx?

drinking da cool aide. At the end of the day its still a cheap shock from a European company that specializes in slam apps for the VW world. But that's ok.. they must be good. FM endorses them.

Co-worker had some seat time on a set last few weekends at the local SCCA events. Put numerous drivers in the car (NB1) and compared to his box stock NB1. Times were no better if not worse between all drivers compared to the OE hardware. Folks felt the suspension was "ok". Quite soft overall and perhaps too much rebound in the rear. Car was a bit dicey on all seasons and only became marginally faster with rpf1's and 615k's.

stormin'norman
04-12-2012, 09:07 AM
I did. TEINs are rebuildable, Vmaxxs are not. That would be cool if Vmaxxs were guaranteed for life, but they only have a 24 month warranty.

THIS as well. They better be Raceland/KYB GR2 cheap if you're going to consider a non rebuildable setup.

Bryan
04-12-2012, 09:51 AM
drinking da cool aide. At the end of the day its still a cheap shock from a European company that specializes in slam apps for the VW world. But that's ok.. they must be good. FM endorses them.

Co-worker had some seat time on a set last few weekends at the local SCCA events. Put numerous drivers in the car (NB1) and compared to his box stock NB1. Times were no better if not worse between all drivers compared to the OE hardware. Folks felt the suspension was "ok". Quite soft overall and perhaps too much rebound in the rear. Car was a bit dicey on all seasons and only became marginally faster with rpf1's and 615k's.
Fair enough. I've never driven a car on them, but figured they've got to at least be better than the Racelands.

Personally, I'm a big proponent of the Illumina/FM Spring combo. Sure you can't get ride height adjustment, but it's a great compromise for street/autox/daily duty--AND the shocks have a lifetime warranty :)

Caoboy
04-12-2012, 11:46 AM
Lifetime warranty is awesome if you're a set it and forget it guy.

Suspension is critical in the Miata. It's what makes it what it is. Why cheap out on it, and ruin what was good? I've learned this lesson already. :(

Bryan
04-12-2012, 12:20 PM
Lifetime warranty is awesome if you're a set it and forget it guy.Yep. You just need to figure out what your needs are. My needs are met by a set/forget/check-every-couple-years setup :)

EMMI
04-12-2012, 02:57 PM
i just spent equal amount on s.tech springs and skunk2 shocks on my civic... wait wrong forum!

Tekel
04-12-2012, 03:05 PM
Did someone really ask this question?

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-nOQrQT8Br94/Thtc-_ZsknI/AAAAAAAAAeM/8RdXfA-jvtI/s1600/is-this-real-life1.jpg

AntiochOG
04-12-2012, 03:08 PM
Definitely go for the Teins if you're only deciding between those too. I've been really happy with the Bilsteins and Ground Controls I recently installed which are similarly priced to the Teins. I like them a bit more than Tein and FM/Illumina setups I've experienced.

bedheadben
04-12-2012, 04:14 PM
I've had both Racelands and VMaxx on Miata's and all I can say is that both are pretty much the same thing and absolutely horrible. Spring rates are way too soft and the shocks blew out in less than a month on both of mine. Pretty much the only thing they're good for is being slammed, because why should you waste an expensive coilover on that. Go with the Tein's if it will ever see the track!

stormin'norman
04-12-2012, 06:11 PM
Definitely go for the Teins if you're only deciding between those too. I've been really happy with the Bilsteins and Ground Controls I recently installed which are similarly priced to the Teins. I like them a bit more than Tein and FM/Illumina setups I've experienced.

I've been quite happy as well with the NB Bilstein kit I cobbled together for the Lazarus project. Seems to be, so far, quite the bang for the buck. Front shocks appear to handle the 500lb springs quite well. Should have some on track thoughts in 2 months!

iamdallas
04-12-2012, 06:24 PM
I don't understand. I've rode in a ton of other cars with much more expensive suspension than mine

Bilsteins with GC coils
Tein basics
Koni adjustables with gc sleeves
Godspeed coilovers

And my car feels better with less body roll than all of these with my Racelands. They've lasted a year, 20,000 miles. No body roll and they aren't bouncy. Maybe a little softer than what would be optimal, but that's the only complaint. And its not even an issue that bothers me.

Now, I don't track but I do a lot of mountain driving... a LOT.

Maybe mine are defective? ;)

I also have prothane bushings, and racing beat sways.

bedheadben
04-12-2012, 07:11 PM
Put your stock sway bars back on and tell me your car has less body roll than Tein Basics with stock sways.

EMMI
04-12-2012, 10:48 PM
I don't understand. I've rode in a ton of other cars with much more expensive suspension than mine

Bilsteins with GC coils
Tein basics
Koni adjustables with gc sleeves
Godspeed coilovers

And my car feels better with less body roll than all of these with my Racelands. They've lasted a year, 20,000 miles. No body roll and they aren't bouncy. Maybe a little softer than what would be optimal, but that's the only complaint. And its not even an issue that bothers me.

Now, I don't track but I do a lot of mountain driving... a LOT.

Maybe mine are defective? ;)

I also have prothane bushings, and racing beat sways.

all of those suspension phases = brand new out of box?

iamdallas
04-13-2012, 01:10 AM
These instances were on others' cars. The Godspeeds (on a 240) were BRAND new, the other set ups were probably between 1-2 years.

wannafbody
04-13-2012, 08:13 AM
Ride height also plays a role in the amount of body roll.

BlueMotorsport
04-13-2012, 08:59 AM
I've had both Racelands and VMaxx on Miata's and all I can say is that both are pretty much the same thing and absolutely horrible. Spring rates are way too soft and the shocks blew out in less than a month on both of mine. Pretty much the only thing they're good for is being slammed, because why should you waste an expensive coilover on that. Go with the Tein's if it will ever see the track!

^this is what i was looking for. So many members state that "omg go with this company blah blah blah" and they are no different then the racelands. i put my order in for the teins, and for the did somebody really ask this question? yes i did and for good reason. Nothing compares to real world experience and the word of the customer. I thank you all for the input, and will give feedback on the tein coilovers once they are on the car :mrgreen:

concealer404
04-13-2012, 09:11 AM
These instances were on others' cars. The Godspeeds (on a 240) were BRAND new, the other set ups were probably between 1-2 years.

Wait... so you aren't even comparing Miatas to Miatas?

stormin'norman
04-13-2012, 09:16 AM
Wait... so you aren't even comparing Miatas to Miatas?

seems legit.

Bryan
04-13-2012, 09:17 AM
Wait... so you aren't even comparing Miatas to Miatas?
Sounds like it, doesn't it?

concealer404
04-13-2012, 09:26 AM
seems legit.

Definitely!

Bro, my Celica on Megans handles better than my Miata on Bilstein/Mazdaspeed setup. This means Macstrut > double wishbones.



Sounds like it, doesn't it?

Sure does...

psulja
04-13-2012, 09:35 AM
My miata with FM springs completely killed that focus hatch in the corners, and he has coils! Just goes to prove FM is king and you don't need a proper coilover setup when springs will do the trick.

bedheadben
04-13-2012, 10:53 AM
Ride height also plays a role in the amount of body roll.
Thank you, no one ever brings that up. The lower you go on an McPherson Strut or SLA suspension like the Miata, the more body roll you get.
When you lower the suspension, the roll center actually drops more then the center of gravity does, thus making the roll couple longer. In turn, gravity now has more "leverage" to roll the car around and it will actually be less stable than it was at stock height.

All of that goes out the window if you're on bump stops. Some people think their Racelands handle great in the corners. They don't. Their bumpstops handle good in the corners.

^this is what i was looking for. So many members state that "omg go with this company blah blah blah" and they are no different then the racelands. i put my order in for the teins, and for the did somebody really ask this question? yes i did and for good reason. Nothing compares to real world experience and the word of the customer. I thank you all for the input, and will give feedback on the tein coilovers once they are on the car :mrgreen:
I'm glad I could help you figure it out. I wish you luck with the Tein's!

Tekel
04-13-2012, 11:23 AM
^this is what i was looking for. So many members state that "omg go with this company blah blah blah" and they are no different then the racelands. i put my order in for the teins, and for the did somebody really ask this question? yes i did and for good reason. Nothing compares to real world experience and the word of the customer. I thank you all for the input, and will give feedback on the tein coilovers once they are on the car :mrgreen:
Even questioning the comparison of ricelands and Tein shows that you had done zero research. It's like asking if you should buy a bottle of filtered piss or a bottle of (insert name brand water here).

diabeetus
04-13-2012, 11:37 AM
Even questioning the comparison of ricelands and Tein shows that you had done zero research. It's like asking if you should buy a bottle of filtered piss or a bottle of (insert name brand water here).

is the piss fresh? or 1+ days old?

Tekel
04-13-2012, 11:39 AM
is the piss fresh? or 1+ days old?

3+ days on the side of a road in Arizona stored in a milk jug.

diabeetus
04-13-2012, 11:40 AM
oh shit. yeah that'll do it hahaa

WASABI
04-13-2012, 12:52 PM
Ride height also plays a role in the amount of body roll.


Thank you, no one ever brings that up. The lower you go on an McPherson Strut or SLA suspension like the Miata, the more body roll you get.
When you lower the suspension, the roll center actually drops more then the center of gravity does, thus making the roll couple longer. In turn, gravity now has more "leverage" to roll the car around and it will actually be less stable than it was at stock height.

All of that goes out the window if you're on bump stops. Some people think their Racelands handle great in the corners. They don't. Their bumpstops handle good in the corners.


Ben, are we talking "stock" stock height, like 13+ fender to wheel center? Or is there a reasonable amount of drop that will improve the handling, before you go too far (slammed). I'm asking this(no expert here), because, spec Miatas run lower than stock height, and they look like they handle pretty good. I measured five and a quarter inches from the bottom pinch weld (rear) to the ground, on a SSM raced Miata.

-Jim

bedheadben
04-13-2012, 01:10 PM
Ben, are we talking "stock" stock height, like 13+ fender to wheel center? Or is there a reasonable amount of drop that will improve the handling, before you go too far (slammed). I'm asking this(no expert here), because, spec Miatas run lower than stock height, and they look like they handle pretty good. I measured five and a quarter inches from the bottom pinch weld (rear) to the ground, on a SSM raced Miata.

-Jim

Yes, this doesn't happen too drastically until you lower the car to the point where the control arms are facing up towards the chassis instead of down away from the chassis. Ideally you want your lower control arms facing slightly down away from the car. Lowering the car a little bit does help CG a bit but I wouldn't necessarily say that there is a perfect ride height for performance. It all depends on your spring rate/aero setup/etc.

Also the camber curve starts to get steep past more than a few inches lower than stock anyways. You ideally want to set each end of the car so that it's in the correct part of the camber curve for how much camber you want it to gain. For example, if you want the front to gain more camber you would lower it, then realign so the static camber is the same. It would then gain camber quicker as you traveled through the suspension, but have the same camber static.

Dmn2258
04-13-2012, 01:31 PM
i would agree to go with Tein coils. I've heard mostly bad things about "ricelands". But If you wanted to save a little money, I have Megan Racing EZ Streets on my na which I got for around $600 off ebay and I'm very pleased with them.

kung fu jesus
04-13-2012, 03:19 PM
working as tech focusing on front-end//suspension, (except for a few exceptions) I decline working and/or aligning miatas with racelands because too often have I encountered other problems which the owner should have taken care of. (missing alignment bolts, bend control arms, destroyed bushings, rounded off eccentric cams, etc etc)

What was the problem with that one car on Racelands at a techday last year? Busted hub, missing bolts? I remember the wheel had a TON of play. The owner said something like, "yeah, I've been driving on that for a few months now. Is that bad?"

We all just looked at each other and walked away.

iamdallas
04-14-2012, 09:50 AM
Definitely!

Bro, my Celica on Megans handles better than my Miata on Bilstein/Mazdaspeed setup. This means Macstrut > double wishbones.




Sure does...

I never said anything about "better". I compared body roll and ride. I don't understand the reaction to my observation. One car was a 240, the others were Miatas. I noted that.

This site is starting to make me :(

Caoboy
04-14-2012, 09:54 AM
You're still comparing apples to oranges.

I<3flippyheadlights
04-14-2012, 10:47 AM
Why is this thread still alive?

bedheadben
04-14-2012, 11:26 AM
Why is this thread still alive?

Good question, the OP got his answer and it only appears to be headed downhill. Locked.