opinions on frame rail strengthening options

[SpeedWorks]

So I remembered seeing this youtube video a long time ago of someone beefing up their frame rails and for the life of me I couldn't find the video, until last night. Here it is:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxjXK3gEG10&feature=player_embedded#!

My frame rails are kinda smashed like many others have experienced with their miatas. I'd love a set of frame rail braces, but don't have the money at the moment to get some and this mod seems like it would work well in place of braces and I can get it done on the cheap. Also, since my car is fully stripped at the moment, this would be the perfect time for me to do something like this on my car.

What do you all think about this method to strengthen the frame rails? Do you think I would compromise anything on the car by cutting off the original frame rails and going this route?

Any suggestions or comments on this?

Also, i'm gonna talk to my fabrication guy and see how much it would cost if he could make up a set of frame rail braces for me. If he can do braces on the cheap, then I might have him make me a set, but I think I might still want to go through with the repair like the video first to repair the rails, then cover them up with a set of braces.

[atank]

I know you mentioned money, so if it were me I would save until i had enough to get frame rail braces, the original frame rails can be pulled back out with a dent puller, are your vertical walls crushed? Got any pictures?

[Boris]

That looks absolutely stupid.
Pull the dents out as best as you can and spend your money on seam welding the door openings.

[SpeedWorks]

I know you mentioned money, so if it were me I would save until i had enough to get frame rail braces, the original frame rails can be pulled back out with a dent puller, are your vertical walls crushed? Got any pictures?

Atank, if you go to my build thread on the last page, you can kinda see the condition of my frame rails from the pics of the car on its side. I can probably have some frame rail braces fabricated locally for less than what they cost from FM, so I might go that route, but I will have to straighten out my rails in order to install the braces. My thought was that maybe I can do something similar to the youtube video and then install the braces afterward. I might give extra strength and rigidity by doing both and it would save in having to straighten out the factory rails.


That looks absolutely stupid.
Pull the dents out as best as you can and spend your money on seam welding the door openings.

Seam welding was not part of my plan at all on the car, and I don't plan on going that route either, but thanks for the suggestion.

[atank]

I would not cut them, just take your time and get the dents out, then have some braces fabed, keep us updated on your progress, the FB's that you are going to have fabed what material you planning on using SS? Aluminum???

[wannafbody]

I had a local welder cap mine-it really made a noticable difference in stiffness.

[SpeedWorks]

so it looks like i won't be cutting my frame rails after all. I'm gonna try to get my car back in rolling form soon and get it over to my friend's shop where I can put the car on the lift and start pulling the rails and straightening them up as much as possible. I also got word of some frame rail braces made by static 9 that are very inexpensive, so i'm gonna try to pick up a set of those soon to install while the car is up in the air.

thanks for all the feedback on this topic everyone. if you want to see the continued progress on my car, just check out my build thread.

thanks

[Darthteddy]

The V8R rails that 949 sells are very affordable and work great.

So much easier then spending all the time pulling out dents in them.

[SpeedWorks]

The V8R rails that 949 sells are very affordable and work great.

So much easier then spending all the time pulling out dents in them.

normally, frame rail braces fit snugly over the stock rails. If the stock rails and smashed or pushed in to out of shape in any way, the braces won't go over them, so I'll probably have to pull my stock rails in order to fit any brand of frame rails braces on.

[The Driver]

The V8R rails that 949 sells are very affordable and work great.

So much easier then spending all the time pulling out dents in them.

I did this, and it is worth EVERY penny. I have the V8R, but I actually recommend the Flyin Miata ones better.

[tsingson]

I have the Boss Frame rails on mine and they made a pretty noticeable difference. The price on these were really good, even though I won mine in a raffle. I don't know if they are still for sale though. As far as crushed rails go, as long as you can pound them to where you can slip the rails on you should be fine. Part of mine were slightly crushed and we had to pound the rail to slip on the frame rail.

[Jumbosrule]

Use a bench vice sitting on a floor jack and pinch the crushed frame rails back into shape. Easier than pounding back into shape.

[wannafbody]

I think properly designed door bars would be more effective.

[Massiah]

I have rails on both my cars, FM on the NA and Static Nine Garage on the NB. In both cases the factory sheet was crushed to bits. I got a large pipe wrench and muscled them back into shape, then installed the rails. Both were inexpensive, the 9 rails are cheaper but come powerdercoated. If I lived in an area with weather, or had a lower car, I would get the FM rails or some other stainless option.

[The Driver]

I think properly designed door bars would be more effective.

I'll have to disagree here. Door bars are probably stiffer, but they are also more intrusive. No just that, but once the frame rails are installed, you won't even know they are there. So the door bars would add stiffness at the expense of been in the way.
I have heard stories of cars developing understeer tendencies after the door braces have been installed. Maybe, maybe not, but they are certainly more intrusive.

[BoBo]

My frame rails are kinda smashed like many others have experienced with their miatas. I'd love a set of frame rail braces, but don't have the money at the moment to get some and this mod seems like it would work well in place of braces and I can get it done on the cheap. Also, since my car is fully stripped at the moment, this would be the perfect time for me to do something like this on my car.

What do you all think about this method to strengthen the frame rails? Do you think I would compromise anything on the car by cutting off the original frame rails and going this route?

Any suggestions or comments on this?

Also, i'm gonna talk to my fabrication guy and see how much it would cost if he could make up a set of frame rail braces for me. If he can do braces on the cheap, then I might have him make me a set, but I think I might still want to go through with the repair like the video first to repair the rails, then cover them up with a set of braces.

It all depends on how bad your flooring rails are and how long you plan to keep the car. If it's minor damage, then you can just raise the car and hammer it into place, or use a dent puller. But if your rails are badly beaten and you plan on keeping the car long, then it would be nice to have your damage rails cut out and weld a stronger one in place. That way it looks clean instead of you trying to hide the damaged with frame rails you know. I know a few people in the past who did that through a muffler shop and it came out really nice. It all depends if the damage rails bother you. For me, I have a slight dent on my frame rails, but it was very minimal. The damage was only 4 inches wide, I can just hammer the sides in place to slide the FM rails. Anything worst than that, then I would have some custom fabricated rails welded in place.But that's only because I have bigger plans for my car in the future. That's just my opinion, good luck and let me know how it goes.

[miata2fast]

This is how I did mine. http://www.miataturbo.net/race-prep-75/my-frame-rail-solution-70950/

[BoBo]

^nice work, I bet that fab stuff made the car chassis stiffer.

[miata2fast]

Thank you. I have not tested it yet on the street, but you can tell it is stiffer when you jack the car up on one end. I have since also installed a roll cage and did some seam welding.

I am really looking forward to seeing how well the car works with all of the mods I have done to the chassis.

[BoBo]

These cars are already old, so any type of bracing will help. I could could use the extra bracing myself, I'm debating whether to get the butterfly brace or just the rails. I would cage my car if it wasn't a daily driver. My previous miata was caged and I was bar hoping every time I come in n out of the car LoL.

[The Driver]

^ Do the rails, and the STB first, cheaper that way. Then if you need more stiffness, ad the butterfly.

[BoBo]

^stb ? you mean strut tower bar, I have a generic ebay bar, however, I might get the FM bar. I just need to make some time installing the FM rails. I heard that it's easier to install the FM rails and the FM butterfly brace together because both rails have to be aligned together. But I'm probably gonna get the rails first, I have to save up for an FM clutch as well.

[The Driver]

^stb ? you mean strut tower bar, I have a generic ebay bar, however, I might get the FM bar. I just need to make some time installing the FM rails. I heard that it's easier to install the FM rails and the FM butterfly brace together because both rails have to be aligned together. But I'm probably gonna get the rails first, I have to save up for an FM clutch as well.

In our case, "Shock Tower bar", and yes the FM one rocks! I had an OBX ebay special one, and I thought that was good. I had no idea how much movement/ flex I was leaving on the table, until I got the FM one.

About the butterfly, yeah it's easier do it at once, but not cheaper...

[SM16RMSM]

I'll have to disagree here. Door bars are probably stiffer, but they are also more intrusive. No just that, but once the frame rails are installed, you won't even know they are there. So the door bars would add stiffness at the expense of been in the way.
I have heard stories of cars developing understeer tendencies after the door braces have been installed. Maybe, maybe not, but they are certainly more intrusive.

I have to agree on this. I bought the door bar and have them installed. I do like them but I think the frame rail kit would have been a better buy. The getting in and out is something that you have to get used to and it also limits the choice of aftermarket seats since it narrows the tunnel. I found that with Boss Frog ribs, I'm limited to either a all aluminum race seat or stock seats for the MSM. There are pros but the cons just outweigh the point in having them. Race Car / Autocross car = no problem. Daily Driven car = frame rails. As for understeer, it explains why I can't get the front end to take a corner.

[BoBo]

In our case, "Shock Tower bar", and yes the FM one rocks! I had an OBX ebay special one, and I thought that was good. I had no idea how much movement/ flex I was leaving on the table, until I got the FM one.

About the butterfly, yeah it's easier do it at once, but not cheaper...
I guess you can call it that since we have double wish bone on our cars. I don't know why beatrush, and Ultraracing calls it strut tower bar on their products . The FM one is solid all the way, unlike the generic bar where it pivots on the sides. It's definitely worth the $160+shipping. I'm probably gonna shoot for the FM bar, boss frog fender brace, and FM rails.

Ultra racing came out with a few braces for our cars, I don't like their tower bars, but their under chassis bars are cool, excluding their biggest brace that connects to the rails.

[Massiah]

I guess you can call it that since we have double wish bone on our cars. I don't know why beatrush, and Ultraracing calls it strut tower bar on their products . The FM one is solid all the way, unlike the generic bar where it pivots on the sides. It's definitely worth the $160+shipping. I'm probably gonna shoot for the FM bar, boss frog fender brace, and FM rails.

Ultra racing came out with a few braces for our cars, I don't like their tower bars, but their under chassis bars are cool, excluding their biggest brace that connects to the rails.
I suggest you go with the Garagestar front braces. After doing a couple boss frog braces, I have to say that fitment is an issue most of the time. Not only that but the frog arms are not triangulated. Garagestar is local(ish) and Ken's a good guy. His new arms fit very well and are good quality for a cheaper price.

I think that frame rails + seam welding is probably the best and cheapest NVH mods you can do. There are two guys in SF that will TIG seam weld for around $140. If you're interested in that I can PM contact info.

The STB and butterfly brace are highly unnecessary. STB is less of a pain, and you can add a master cylinder brace on it. The butterfly brace is expensive for almost zero effect, and it's in the way.

[Phatmiata]

miata2fast that is pretty intense!!! nice work!

[BoBo]

I suggest you go with the Garagestar front braces. After doing a couple boss frog braces, I have to say that fitment is an issue most of the time. Not only that but the frog arms are not triangulated. Garagestar is local(ish) and Ken's a good guy. His new arms fit very well and are good quality for a cheaper price.

I think that frame rails + seam welding is probably the best and cheapest NVH mods you can do. There are two guys in SF that will TIG seam weld for around $140. If you're interested in that I can PM contact info.

The STB and butterfly brace are highly unnecessary. STB is less of a pain, and you can add a master cylinder brace on it. The butterfly brace is expensive for almost zero effect, and it's in the way.

I guess Kens fender brace is already finished, I didn't see it in his website yet. However, I saw a picture of his fender braces on Facebook a couple of weeks ago. That's the only problem about the butterfly, that thing has to be removed every time you do some kind of work. I'm gonna pass seam welding for now I will probably do it later on,but thanks though.On the other hand, I'm definitely getting that (stb) & the master cylnder brace.

[The Driver]

The STB and butterfly brace are highly unnecessary. STB is less of a pain, and you can add a master cylinder brace on it. The butterfly brace is expensive for almost zero effect, and it's in the way.

I'm very happy with the FM STB. Today was the first time that I drove into the mountains (canyon carvin) w/o the hard top. Not only was the car VERY composed, the whole unibody felt stiff as opposed to the wet noodles feel it used to have. What really floored me was when we drove over railroad tracks. It was just SMOOTH driving, very surreal.

I would call the factory/FM STB the head of the class. I'd say that the Mazdaspeed one is a pretty good one also. Everything else? Not that good.

[BoBo]

The garage star fender brace is $275 now, I thought it used to be $200+ shipping from a post @ CR.On the other hand the Frog arms $250 and has a sturdier piece.

http://garagestar.com/blog/?p=999

[mini_fd]

I need to bolt in the 3rd point strut bar in to actually feel the front end stiffer. But I have frame rails waiting to be installed and I can't wait to let you know what I feel afterwards.

[The Driver]

^ That really is a matter of choice, as the Miata's firewall is virtually paper thin. You'll love those frame rails!

[BoBo]

Ordered the strut tower bar from FM, Its cheaper than the beatrush strut bar.Hopefully I feel some improvement, but I'm not gonna expect too much since our cars aren't struts to begin with. Every little brace helps.

[The Driver]

Ordered the strut tower bar from FM, Its cheaper than the beatrush strut bar.Hopefully I feel some improvement, but I'm not gonna expect too much since our cars aren't struts to begin with. Every little brace helps.

Before you install it, drive over some shitty roads/railroad tracks. Then do it again after the install, I think you'll be surprised. I know I was!


PS: I had the frame rails and the coilovers already in the car, when I installed the STB.

[BoBo]

Before you install it, drive over some shitty roads/railroad tracks. Then do it again after the install, I think you'll be surprised. I know I was!


PS: I had the frame rails and the coilovers already in the car, when I installed the STB.

I'm looking forward to hit the windy roads before and after the install, there is a lot of crappy roads on the way there as well. Then I will probably hit the FM rails after a month, I'm pretty stoked.