What is the best engine swap for a Miata?

[kassm]

What is the best engine swap for a Miata? Mazdaspeed Turbo? V6 Millenia, Ford 5.0L, Mazda RX7, Chevy LS, or other ??? I want something faster when my engine eventually goes out so I figure i should plan ahead now and save for the future.

If you could do an engine swap what would you choose and why?

[ctrench]

not to be a jerk, but use google... it all depends on money, reliability, weight, n/a or boost, all depends on the person,

I personally would go LS2 on spray, http://www.bossfrog.biz/Miata_V8_Swap.html (for all your LS swap needs!)
reliable, good power, and lightweight

[SM16RMSM]

It is really up to you. I can tell you that you need a LS swap since that is what I would do, but you might find that a v6 swap is more up your alley or you might like to have a 13b turbo swap in the future. The possibilities are endless.

I prefer a LS3 swap. I think that the LS would be a better solution if your looking into weight, grip, track time, and good ol American muscle. A LS swap, T56, and a Ford 8.8 adds like a extra 200 lbs of weight to the chassis I think. I not sure of the exact number here. I know it pretty close to that range. A LS swap would be more money, better reliability, better drivability, less weight than a 5.0L Ford, and fast. My second option would be a 1.8L motor with a stroker kit from FM and a FMII kit.

[Phatmiata]

Well he did come HERE asking US for advice, so.... sending him off to search Google is kind of a kick in the teeth. :fp: IMHO

There is a lot of options with these cars, the V8 kits are now a bolt in affair, with minimal cutting, you would just need to source the engine. But have you considered forced induction like the new SuperCharger kit from Project-G ?? 217hp may not sound like much vs todays cars. However the miata does not weigh nearly as much as the new cars these days, so the power-to-weight is pretty excellent.

If you are sold on a engine swap I would have to say the V8 kit from V8Roadsters and Monster Motorsports are the best so far. I see a lot of guys "trying" to complete a Rotory swap, but most seem to never finish.


BTW Chris, not to be a jerk but why would you choose Bossfrog when V8Roadsters is right here in our backyard? unk577 can tell you they do tons of swaps here locally.

[ctrench]

really?! i didnt know v8roadsters was local, and yeah ive talked to brian about his LS projectbut he didnt mention anything about v8roadsters.

[Phatmiata]

Their shop is like 10 minutes from the "Five Guys" place we used to meet. Lol.

[I<3flippyheadlights]

Their shop is like 10 minutes from the "Five Guys" place we used to meet. Lol.

His V8 Miata is gonna be bad ass


To the OP, like everyone else has said it is up to you and your goals. best engine swap would be V8 LS series hands down. Your question should be something like, "I'm new to this whole thing, I have *fill in the blank* of experience with cars and I'm looking for a different engine for my Miata when it goes. With that you can be more guided. How deep are your pockets? Can you wield? etc.

All these things come into play with the Miata. If you don't have a lot of experience putting anything else besides a BP back in the Miata is a ass ton of work. You can be very happy with a boosted Bp engine. You won't be the fastest in the world, but it will put a smile on your face and you will smoke enough cars.

[SM16RMSM]

Well he did come HERE asking US for advice

The subject of engine swaps in pretty wide. Most will favor the LS swap for being the most easiest for having many bolt-on optons. I vote it for the best like I<3flippyheadlights. I choose a LS motor since I like the power added to the chassis while still being light. Outside research is pretty much a requirement. You can find tons of info on the LS motors vs 5.0L Fords.

IMHO, it how deep your pockets are at the end of the day. Swaps can consume time, money, and your patience.

If Kassm is just looking for more power, a built BP motor and turbo kit could be the answer. It's easy on the pockets and require no modification the the chassis, subframe, or drivetrain. With a v8 swap, your looking at changes to the chassis, subframe, drivetrain, wiring, air conditioning, and more.

Start saving now. Take a look into each motor you have on your list. Read into each motor. Look at every possible aspect from cost, reliability, maintenance, to economy. Deciding on which swap you wants to do won't happen over night. It take time and research to find the perfect setup. It took me over a year to decide on what swap I wanted to do.

[druz]

You guys summed it up pretty well. Goals, skills, budget. I chose LSx because I didnt want to fab the subframe and V8R makes it very easy.

[DK Wolf]

Fuck you guys are way too nice. I'd have told him to eat shit and die. And then provided my answer.

If you're poor, 5.0 swap. It's solid and the engine is dirt cheap and simple, and stupid cheap to mod. However it's heavy... and its power gains from factory motor specs aren't worth it for the average douche.

LSx if you have some extra cash, it's lighter than the 5.0, more power... but again... it costs more.. a good fucking chunk more.

13B if you're a delusional fucking retard. Only a couple guys have been able to do it successfully, and there's a few threads all over the place of people take it on with no success. If you have no prior car history or mods. Kiss this good bye.


Really the only ones worth mentioning... other guys will say V6, but fuck them. That's gay.




I'd also highly research the option for turbo-ing your car.




now go kill yourself

EDIT: but fucking seriously, we aren't going to write the shit that's already been written about. Google it, it's on plenty of other forums and there's a thread I started on CR that went IN DEPTH about motor swaps. Probably one of the best full blown discussions about it.

[I<3flippyheadlights]

Fuck you guys are way too nice. I'd have told him to eat shit and die. And then provided my answer.

If you're poor, 5.0 swap. It's solid and the engine is dirt cheap and simple, and stupid cheap to mod. However it's heavy... and its power gains from factory motor specs aren't worth it for the average douche.

LSx if you have some extra cash, it's lighter than the 5.0, more power... but again... it costs more.. a good fucking chunk more.

13B if you're a delusional fucking retard. Only a couple guys have been able to do it successfully, and there's a few threads all over the place of people take it on with no success. If you have no prior car history or mods. Kiss this good bye.


Really the only ones worth mentioning... other guys will say V6, but fuck them. That's gay.




I'd also highly research the option for turbo-ing your car.




now go kill yourself

EDIT: but fucking seriously, we aren't going to write the shit that's already been written about. Google it, it's on plenty of other forums and there's a thread I started on CR that went IN DEPTH about motor swaps. Probably one of the best full blown discussions about it.


I was actually thinking about that thread. You went into a really deep discussion between supercharging, turbo'ing, and engine swap. I'm with you on the 13B, you have to be really ballsy to do that and if you do a V6... well... ya... no...



*edit* Just found a thread where someone did a GTO 4.7 V8 swap in 3 months. Here is their cost.
Engine/trans/all accessories (and even the pedals) - $4750
V8R Parts (Engine mounting standard location subframe, clutch/flywheel, clutch hydraulics, oil pan, Getrag G1 driveline kit, driveshaft, axles, mounts) - $5046
Rear Diff (CTS 3.23 from local junkyard) - $302
Power steering fittings and lines - $57
Water pump/Head kit - $313
ARP Bolt kits - $65
F-body shifter - $100
New Tie Rod Ends - $105
TSP 224R Package (Cam, springs, pushrods) - $625
Texas Speed OTS Tune (remove VATS, remove rear O2, second gear lock out, cam grind) - $225
Texas Speed ASP Pulley - $155
HP Tuners - $650
Intake (aluminum pipe, AEM filter) - $125
Flyin miata stuff (NB Fuel kit, flywheel cover, headers, oil adapter) - $1017
Calico Coatings ceramic header coating - $231.75
Exhaust (made by Sean) - $966
Hose kit (pieced from Advanced Auto parts) - $125
Fluids (oil, trans, and diff fluid) - $82

So about 15k but can be done cheaper without cam, new gaskets, HP tuners, etc

Now they did everything themselves. Are you up for spending that much and doing all that work?

[concealer404]

If you're hell-bent on swapping a motor for some reason.... the LSx is really the only one that "makes sense."

SR20 swaps are dumb.

Rotaries are cool, but no real payoff beyond DAT BRAP BRAP BRAP and being able to tell someone you swapped your motor.

The KL swap is an engineering circle jerk with potential for HUGE power, but it's not so well supported, and if you're asking the original question, a KL swap is not within your grasp.

The Mazdaspeed Turbo swap is dumb. Turbo your existing motor and voila! You've got a Mazdaspeed Turbo motor, but better!

The 5.0 swap is mostly irrelevant at this point in time with the support of the LSx swaps in my opinion.

FE3 swap is cool, but again, is it really worth doing over just boosting a BP? Meh.



Basically, the only logical choices when it comes to making more power in a Miata are 1) Turbo BP, or 2) LSx swap.



Do as i say, not as i do.

<---- F2T swap incoming.

[Agent☣Orange]

I'm torn between doing all the work of editing this thread or just deleting it. Obviously someone got banned for similar language in some other threads and I'll paraphrase what I wrote there. No we don't have word blocks in place because after discussing this last year, it was agreed between admin and the membership that while limited profanity was okay for emphasis, that's not a green light to make MR.net F-bomb central. There are other Miata forums for that and why we pride ourselves on being different.

So while we're not going to brow beat people for occasional profanity, the flip side is that we trust the membership not to put us in a position where we have to delete posts or ban people. Nobody feels comfortable doing that so please...just a little common sense here.

[wannafbody]

The LS based 5.3 Truck engines are probably the cheapest option, some even have the good 246 heads.

[maharaj]

Of all of these comments, how many are from people that have ACTUALLY done the swap, or ANY type of swap? Practical and theoretical applications are completely different when you are the one doing the work and spending your money.

[SM16RMSM]

^^^^^ True, very true. The only swap I done was dropping a 406 small block Chevy into a my 69 camaro and that is the easy part.

[Blueiii]

Dear OP,

I've ready through all of your threads, from "Which lowering springs" to comments "What front splitter is this?" This is not meant to flame you, but rather to give you some strong advice.

First, please create a build thread where you also tell us a little about yourself. What do you do for a living? Do you have a garage that you can work in? Tools? What is your level of mechanical skill? How many cars have you owned and modified in the past? What is your goal? If you're making $9 an hour and this is your first car, 99% of the people on here will tell you not to get into a motor swap because you'll be in way over your head. (I'm guessing DK might be the 1% that encourages you to do it as it would be somewhat fun to watch....)

Its really important that, early on, you assess the following big three:
1.) What do I want the car to do?
2.) What is my current skill level?
3.) What is my budget?

All three of these will likely change over the course of your vehicle ownership, but its important to look at them carefully and plan around them. The forums are a great place to help get ideas for #1, get better with #2, and completely blow #3 (although deals are sometimes out there!)

Now that you've established these, its time to start looking at the maintenance. Most people who buy a "new to me-otter" car tend to forget that its been owned by someone else for the past 20(ish) years. There are a lot of parts that wear out, and although the car will run and drive, it will run and drive much better when parts that wear are brought back up to spec.

Even before buying my miata, I started looking into the maintenance that needs to be done. Here's a decent thread on that topic:
http://mazdaroadster.net/showthread.php?2994-quot-New-quot-%28to-me%29-high-mileage-NA-Definitive-quot-to-do-quot-list&p=47474#post47474

Some of the maintenance items will provide a good time to do complimentary mods. Point in case: I know I need new shocks. Sure, I could throw el-cheapo Monroe shocks at it for $60 / shock, but I want to improve upon the original design. That means:
1.) clean factory springs (mine have surface rust, and a friend had a clean set)
2.) Koni Sport shocks ($516)
3.) FCM bumpstops ($100)
4.) New dust boots ($25)
5.) New alignment bolts ($90)

That's $731 before shipping... but its all maintenance that will replace worn out parts with new parts that will make my miata more enjoyable for how I use it (autocross in a stock class.) It will handle much better than how I bought it.

For a simple project to start with, why not take apart your shifter and see if you have any bushings left? That's a good $90 VERY easy project. You've been asking about springs and bigger motors and race splitters... it sounds like you plan to race the car? Have you ever raced before? (Based on your questions, I'm guessing that you haven't ever raced in a sanctioned event... maybe a good idea to try that first? A true race car is rarely driven on the street.)

Just some food for thought.

[Gene Rodriguez]

i grew up with rotary and yes i love it but, yes it has terrible reliability. but that still wont stop me from wanting to swap one in. its really your personal reference and money.

[concealer404]

Of all of these comments, how many are from people that have ACTUALLY done the swap, or ANY type of swap? Practical and theoretical applications are completely different when you are the one doing the work and spending your money.


I've done a swap or 12.

It's not even cheap to swap a Honda if you're going to do it right, and that's about as cheap as it gets.

[maharaj]

Dear OP,

I've ready through all of your threads, from "Which lowering springs" to comments "What front splitter is this?" This is not meant to flame you, but rather to give you some strong advice.

First, please create a build thread where you also tell us a little about yourself. What do you do for a living? Do you have a garage that you can work in? Tools? What is your level of mechanical skill? How many cars have you owned and modified in the past? What is your goal? If you're making $9 an hour and this is your first car, 99% of the people on here will tell you not to get into a motor swap because you'll be in way over your head. (I'm guessing DK might be the 1% that encourages you to do it as it would be somewhat fun to watch....)

Its really important that, early on, you assess the following big three:
1.) What do I want the car to do?
2.) What is my current skill level?
3.) What is my budget?

All three of these will likely change over the course of your vehicle ownership, but its important to look at them carefully and plan around them. The forums are a great place to help get ideas for #1, get better with #2, and completely blow #3 (although deals are sometimes out there!)

Now that you've established these, its time to start looking at the maintenance. Most people who buy a "new to me-otter" car tend to forget that its been owned by someone else for the past 20(ish) years. There are a lot of parts that wear out, and although the car will run and drive, it will run and drive much better when parts that wear are brought back up to spec.

Even before buying my miata, I started looking into the maintenance that needs to be done. Here's a decent thread on that topic:
http://mazdaroadster.net/showthread.php?2994-quot-New-quot-%28to-me%29-high-mileage-NA-Definitive-quot-to-do-quot-list&p=47474#post47474

Some of the maintenance items will provide a good time to do complimentary mods. Point in case: I know I need new shocks. Sure, I could throw el-cheapo Monroe shocks at it for $60 / shock, but I want to improve upon the original design. That means:
1.) clean factory springs (mine have surface rust, and a friend had a clean set)
2.) Koni Sport shocks ($516)
3.) FCM bumpstops ($100)
4.) New dust boots ($25)
5.) New alignment bolts ($90)

That's $731 before shipping... but its all maintenance that will replace worn out parts with new parts that will make my miata more enjoyable for how I use it (autocross in a stock class.) It will handle much better than how I bought it.

For a simple project to start with, why not take apart your shifter and see if you have any bushings left? That's a good $90 VERY easy project. You've been asking about springs and bigger motors and race splitters... it sounds like you plan to race the car? Have you ever raced before? (Based on your questions, I'm guessing that you haven't ever raced in a sanctioned event... maybe a good idea to try that first? A true race car is rarely driven on the street.)

Just some food for thought.

Couldn't agree more. This engine swap isn't for the faint of heart. Not trying to discourage you but it can, no let me change that, it will get discouraging. Things don't always line up properly or fit as they do on paper or on someone elses car. You've got to be able to fabricate and adapt certain parts. As you are doing now, a good amount of planning and research is required. Talk to people that have done the LS, t5.0 and even the rotary swap. Find out from those individuals what were their reasons for going the route they did and learn from their mistakes.

[vr6miata]

Of all of these comments, how many are from people that have ACTUALLY done the swap, or ANY type of swap? Practical and theoretical applications are completely different when you are the one doing the work and spending your money.
That is the truth, a swap is kinda what each person wants to do. It is sometimes a way of expressing something that is one of a kind. My first miata in early 2000's was a 13b turbo with somewhere around 500hp but isn't reliable and a lot is involved in the swap. My current miata has a VW vr6 turbo over 325hp at the tire kept miata handling and less weight than LS swap. Stock motor is proven good for over 500hp and reliable by VW racers but requires a lot of fabrication to do swap.

[Phatmiata]

That is the truth, a swap is kinda what each person wants to do. It is sometimes a way of expressing something that is one of a kind. My first miata in early 2000's was a 13b turbo with somewhere around 500hp but isn't reliable and a lot is involved in the swap. My current miata has a VW vr6 turbo over 325hp at the tire kept miata handling and less weight than LS swap. Stock motor is proven good for over 500hp and reliable by VW racers but requires a lot of fabrication to do swap.


Hey Danny, we missed you at the Ricks On The River meet in Tampa, I heard you got the car painted now! Can't wait to see the shiny new paint with that widebody! :slayer:

[Unk577]

BTW Chris, not to be a jerk but why would you choose Bossfrog when V8Roadsters is right here in our backyard? unk577 can tell you they do tons of swaps here locally.


Thank you. I can not say enough good things about the guys or parts from v8 roadsters. Their parts are quality and they stand behind them. I know I keep saying it will be done this month but hopefully it will be on the road soon. If both guys are in town this week I'll see if I can talk them into coming out Wednesday.

[Phatmiata]

Do they have a V8 NC out here in Tampa by chance?

[Unk577]

I don't believe so.

[Johnnie]

Do they have a V8 NC out here in Tampa by chance?

If I had a pot of money, an LS-swapped NC would be very appealing.

[3MiataFamily]

Well..lots of opinions here...

Fellow Clubmember spent about 4 years and right at $12k on his LS1 swap..not counting paint..and the car is phenomenal...i have driven it..pretty much lived in it for 12 days this past September on the Fireball run..(www.fireballrun.com)..( http://mazdaroadster.net/showthread.php?3350-Fireball-Run-Adventurally-Northern-Exposure) and can say that hands down the Boss Frog kit is well thought out..beautifully fabricated and easy to install. The hard part is finding the motor..(98 vette LS1)..trans.(.02 Camaro T56)..the rear end..(04 Cobra 3.73)..Griffin Radiator..and getting all the little shit things taken care of..GPS speedo with matching tach is an awesome piece...exhaust is a PITA...all the while earning a living, supporting the family, Cub scouts, Boy scouts, honeydo lists etc..etc. Having friends with skills to help out is a big plus. Buying, fixing and selling 12 Miatas in 2 years helped a lot too. Not for the faint of heart...or the light of wallet by any means.

[DK Wolf]

All this information is posted on the thread I made in CR. Go PM a mod and ask them to reveal my old thread. It was titled something like "The ultimate V8 vs Forced induction thread" and essentially we talked about all the major motor swaps and the alternative to forced induction. In the end, forced induction made much more sense.

Those nazi bastards should also unblock that anti theft thread I made on CR. It was like gods bible to the retard on how to protect his car.

[Heyitsryan]

I always wondered, what happened with you over there? Why were you perm. banned?

[DK Wolf]

Yes... permabanned fo' lyfuh.

CR got too insanely gay, and I couldn't help myself short of calling anyone who said something stupid something derogatory and it was pissing the mods off... And since there's really an abundances of retardation, I did it quite often.
Plus, some mysterious soul who spammed gore pics didn't help my case either.

Only good thing about CR is probably their for sale section. Otherwise I'm not really missing much.

[Heyitsryan]

Yeah, you really aren't missing too much. Lately, it seems like a lot of the guys are turning into assholes like the guys on mt.net.

I love some of the people on there, all of the locals and the local southwest tx section is the shit!

[Unk577]

As far as who builds a better kit? Miata.net probably has the most extensive conversion forum, searching there will yield you tons of information. Nathan has used each of the 3(racing concepts is no longer)

http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=435904&highlight=boss+frog

and

http://www.swaptastic.net/answers.html

[mrpham]

FE3 is my favourite swap, but I would probably just build a BP...

[bigx5murf]

If everything this Guy says is true...... Idk if I should be excited or disgusted...

http://www.k20a.org/forum/showthread.php?t=112309