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View Full Version : DIY: HLA cleaning rod knock? im lost



RedNeckSmoker
02-22-2013, 03:11 PM
after changing water pump,timing belt,cam seals,cas o-ring,gaskets and misc o-rings,drove fine around town the first few days,then i took a 50 mile trip and this arised after getting to destination. any ideas?


http://youtu.be/zNQ6N9jiqbI

ctrench
02-22-2013, 03:25 PM
last time i heard the noise... it was when a friend of mine spun a bearing on his msm

I<3flippyheadlights
02-22-2013, 03:42 PM
I'm no mechanic, but I don't think its Rod knock. its something in the head. Also, your timing belt is VERY loose. You should look into that first.

RedNeckSmoker
02-22-2013, 05:33 PM
yeah that was the first time i started it since the day it went to making that noise,was so damn irratated with it,but i swapped out the old oil pressure gauge for one out of a 92',Belt really isnt as loose as it looks but i am breaking it all down to make sure it didnt jump time and retighten everything back down,i took off valve cover to make sure nothing was loose,didnt see or feel anything loose but will go over again throughly.

http://youtu.be/G0yrKLcslWM

kung fu jesus
02-23-2013, 07:53 AM
collapsed lifters. definitely not rod knock.

maharaj
02-23-2013, 12:16 PM
^^^I will second that. Lifters are and have been an issue with these motors.

RedNeckSmoker
02-25-2013, 08:54 PM
when looking for collapsed lifters what exactly am i looking for? ,when i push on them they move or spongy feel not tight no movement?
i got a vid uploading to the tube will post what i found shortly

RedNeckSmoker
02-25-2013, 09:09 PM
http://youtu.be/cnmnS2u64EI

Stealth97
02-25-2013, 10:06 PM
Think simple first. Check the water pump bolts, they like to back out

RedNeckSmoker
02-26-2013, 12:38 AM
yeah maybe if you didnt torque them or tightened them,never had an issue with them backing out,you might wanna buy a torque wrench, waterpump bolts are fine,i loctite all my bolts and torque to specs.found out looks to be multiple collapsed lifters, springy is good and no movement is bad,so i guess replacement of lifters is on the agenda...yay......DAMN IT!!! well looks like i either got to sell quite a few parts off the parts car to either replace the lifters or rebuild the 99 head i have sitting in the garage,hmmm

kung fu jesus
02-26-2013, 12:40 PM
You can pull them out, take them apart, clean them, re-assemble.

Do a little research and get the cross reference on the lifters from the BP motor Kia uses. Their parts are supposed to be considerably cheaper in price than what a Mazda dealer charges.

RedNeckSmoker
02-27-2013, 08:48 AM
just waiting on Kia Service dept to phone back with a price on a complete set of lifters,i have looked numerous places that sell Kia Oem parts ie: Kiaparts.com for the lifters no online price :( so i guess i have to wait on the stealership to call if not called by 10 am,i will be calling them. btw Rosenthal mazda quotes 52.00 a piece,those damn lifters are like gold to them.thats crazy,whoever said it was a cheap swap was out their damn mind. thats $832 a set not counting shipping hell i can get a rebuilt 99 head for less,i seen someone saying "ahhh Mazda parts are cheap" whoever that was needs to see a shink and soon.lol anyways i will be posting a for sale ad on a bunch of parts to fund this project.

I<3flippyheadlights
02-27-2013, 10:35 AM
Or you could do what KFJ said and clean them out. Also, take lifters from other engines. Probably cheaper to buy a head from someone else and swap em.

RedNeckSmoker
02-27-2013, 10:46 AM
whats the best stuff to use to clean them,i know it has a small oil port hole dont wanna clean them in something thats gonna screw it up worse lol. Gas? Brakekleen? diluted purple power?Simple green?

I<3flippyheadlights
02-27-2013, 10:59 AM
http://www.miata.net/garage/hla/cleaning.html

Did I just blow your mind with that search? :P

I<3flippyheadlights
02-27-2013, 11:02 AM
http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=221803

There is the follow up on this thread

RedNeckSmoker
02-27-2013, 11:08 AM
llol ty eeh normally i search everything i can,just getting really frustrated havent got to drive it but 1 week in 6 months so my mind is like scrambled eggs the past few days,seems like everything is going down hill on it all at once

RedNeckSmoker
02-27-2013, 06:36 PM
well im almost half way through with RichHawks write up on cleaning the HLAs' and so far so good except i added an extra step by using a 50/50 mix of purple power along with the cleaner seems to help break the sludge inside down quicker,i just dont let it sit very long, then a nice bathe in the brakekleen to top it off ,looks like i got some lifters coming back to life...wooohooo!!

RedNeckSmoker
02-28-2013, 08:38 AM
well going to finish up the lifters this morning and re-install cams and re-time and see what happens,so far all the lifters are coming along well so future looks good.

maharaj
02-28-2013, 08:40 AM
Once you get it done post another video.

RedNeckSmoker
02-28-2013, 08:47 AM
was gonna post one after all lifters and also one on start up, the write up says the first 5 secs was the worst HLA he ever heard and after 10 sec it started to mellow down and after a few mins after all air was pushed out of the lifters no more HLA tick,no lifter knock,just pure melodies from the motor

WASABI
02-28-2013, 05:48 PM
was gonna post one after all lifters and also one on start up, the write up says the first 5 secs was the worst HLA he ever heard and after 10 sec it started to mellow down and after a few mins after all air was pushed out of the lifters no more HLA tick,no lifter knock,just pure melodies from the motor

I look forward to seeing how this turned out! Thanks for your detailed posts.

-Jim

RedNeckSmoker
02-28-2013, 08:55 PM
hard at it,just thought i would share some progress pics along the way

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v379/RedNeckSmoker/DSCF7928.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v379/RedNeckSmoker/DSCF7925.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v379/RedNeckSmoker/DSCF7927.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v379/RedNeckSmoker/DSCF7930.jpg

purple power,then carb cleaner and final brakekleen
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v379/RedNeckSmoker/DSCF7929.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v379/RedNeckSmoker/DSCF7926.jpg

wannafbody
02-28-2013, 10:50 PM
Paint that valve cover while it's off

RedNeckSmoker
03-01-2013, 12:02 AM
lol its a spare that im fixing to be working on,gonna finish stripping it and then im going to do some wild cam shield cut out on the front.that valve cover came off my 97m that was an arson case a few years back,havent decided on a color yet but working on a design for the cut,but i do need to paint the one i have on the car as well,just trying to figure out what direction im going to go with it.

kung fu jesus
03-01-2013, 03:51 PM
nice work.

RedNeckSmoker
03-04-2013, 04:50 PM
ok sorry i slipped out a few days,was like a madhouse around here lol anyways i have a cpl vids to post just waiting on uploads to finish.


http://youtu.be/X0UY2DRYUps

cpl other projects im working on.others in the works are custom DIY TSIs and vented hood.
my test bumper for rear cut out,turned out pretty good lil bit of trimming on passenger side still left.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v379/RedNeckSmoker/DSCF7948.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v379/RedNeckSmoker/DSCF7802.jpg

my DIY vented headlight lids
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v379/RedNeckSmoker/DSCF7947.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v379/RedNeckSmoker/DSCF7946.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v379/RedNeckSmoker/DSCF7945.jpg

RedNeckSmoker
03-04-2013, 06:24 PM
First start up after everything re-installed with 14* timing advance,was leary at first,this vid was before a short cruise.
another vid will be up shortly after the cruise HLA is non existant.

http://youtu.be/vE_6dBdLjhI

after short cruise

http://youtu.be/q_mfg7v_m8o

I<3flippyheadlights
03-04-2013, 09:56 PM
That looks and sounds a million times better!

RedNeckSmoker
03-04-2013, 11:07 PM
i feel better too:slayer:

WASABI
03-05-2013, 08:29 AM
That has to make you feel 1000 times better. She sounds sweet in that second video. Great job! Keep up the good work.

RedNeckSmoker
03-05-2013, 08:40 AM
ty

SM16RMSM
03-05-2013, 10:00 AM
Damn, night and day difference.

RedNeckSmoker
03-05-2013, 07:42 PM
man im loving this no HLA tick shit wooohoo!!!!

kung fu jesus
03-06-2013, 07:48 AM
Shade Tree Mechanic - Level Up attained.

Great documentation. Happy this worked for you!

Congrats! You are now a stickied, DIY thread master!

RuckkehrMiata
04-25-2013, 02:05 AM
I know I am dredging up a fairly old topic here, but since i have never dug this deep into a motor on my own before, I was wondering if anybody could be a bit more in-depth with the disassembly down to the lifters?
I want to do this cleanup myself on the 300+k motor I have, I would have experienced help but nobody who has worked on HLA's before.
I am just trying to make sure I don't yank on something I shouldn't, if you know what I mean.

The lifters themselves would probably be the most paranoia-inducing part of the project for me.

RedNeckSmoker
04-26-2013, 02:16 AM
yeah no problem,you know since you are in that far a water pump.timing belt,front crank seal and cam seal would be a perfect time to replace since you are this far into the motor then follow these instructions:
timing belt removal
http://www.miata.net/garage/timingbelt.html
then water pump
http://www.miata.net/garage/water_pump.html
now while the timing belt is off remove the camshaft retainers that hold the camshaft in place**Take Note on where they came off so that they go back on in the right places**. i laid mine out on a board as i took them off in the same order. and mark them as i removed them.
once camshafts are out follow these instructions here -->> http://www.miata.net/garage/hla/cleaning.html
i added an extra step which seemed to add in the cleaning process which was using a glass of Purple power degreaser as my first step then follow the steps listed for the link posted for the HLA cleaning ,was a very simple process just a lil time consuming but you will get to know your car a lil better than when you started. Goodluck and if you have any questions let us know

RuckkehrMiata
04-26-2013, 05:44 AM
yeah no problem,you know since you are in that far a water pump.timing belt,front crank seal and cam seal would be a perfect time to replace since you are this far into the motor then follow these instructions:
timing belt removal
http://www.miata.net/garage/timingbelt.html
then water pump
http://www.miata.net/garage/water_pump.html
now while the timing belt is off remove the camshaft retainers that hold the camshaft in place**Take Note on where they came off so that they go back on in the right places**. i laid mine out on a board as i took them off in the same order. and mark them as i removed them.
once camshafts are out follow these instructions here -->> http://www.miata.net/garage/hla/cleaning.html
i added an extra step which seemed to add in the cleaning process which was using a glass of Purple power degreaser as my first step then follow the steps listed for the link posted for the HLA cleaning ,was a very simple process just a lil time consuming but you will get to know your car a lil better than when you started. Goodluck and if you have any questions let us know

Thanks for the summary! In several months I am going to be doing a full tear down with a close friend who has the tools, and replacing seals/gaskets etc. I figured it was the best time if ever to do these.

Freaky Roadster
04-29-2013, 03:22 PM
A handy tool for cleaning HLA's is an ultrasonic jewellery cleaner. Flushes the crud out without having to strip them down to the smallest parts, just dismantle the two parts of the plunger and give them a minute or so. Soaked overnight in Redex then used white spirit in the ultrasonic.

RedNeckSmoker
08-22-2013, 11:44 AM
thats is as far as i broke them down too and just soaked them in the purple power,then carb cleaner then brakekleen(5 mins in each solution)

BoBo
08-25-2013, 02:38 AM
man im loving this no HLA tick shit wooohoo!!!!

Nice,My HLA can be annoying sometimes on my 96. I wish I had time to clean it.

RedNeckSmoker
09-02-2013, 07:19 PM
**UPDATE**just thought i would like you all to know that she is still running sttrong and only 1 problem and it had nothing to do with that area,i am now dealing wilth fuel smell only in caband low and behold a check valve for fuel vapor was bad

BlitzWing
09-29-2013, 04:28 PM
Did you prime the HLA's with fresh oil before the re-install or just throw them in dry?


A handy tool for cleaning HLA's is an ultrasonic jewellery cleaner. Flushes the crud out without having to strip them down to the smallest parts, just dismantle the two parts of the plunger and give them a minute or so. Soaked overnight in Redex then used white spirit in the ultrasonic.

can anyone else vouch for this? seems like it could be a lot less hassle.

RedNeckSmoker
11-16-2013, 07:03 AM
Did you prime the HLA's with fresh oil before the re-install or just throw them in dry?



can anyone else vouch for this? seems like it could be a lot less hassle.

yes reprimed with fresh oil and lubed every moving part