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View Full Version : Is it OVERKILL? Replacement Alternator - HD 130 amp!!!



WASABI
08-06-2013, 03:07 PM
The stock (60 amp) alternator on my '91 (1.6) crapped the bed and I ordered a 130 amp HD replacement.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mazda-MX5-Miata-1-6L-W-MT-1991-1992-1993-130-HIGH-AMP-NEW-HD-ALTERNATOR-13227-/171092181569?vxp=mtr

The seller says "can be used as a better stock replacement" Before I install her, is this going to wreck any wiring? I plan on installing a big amp and subwoofer... maybe fog lights too.

-Jim

Agent☣Orange
08-06-2013, 03:18 PM
Wow, that's a lot of power! I ran two amps off my stock alternator with no problems but mine is an NB. I hope you don't overload the stock cable going to your battery.

SM16RMSM
08-06-2013, 03:57 PM
Your got to run a bigger wire from the alternator to the battery. Ask me how I know. I helped build a sound system a long time ago, first one with a 1000 watt amp and a 18 inch juggernaut. High output alternator setup and we melted the factory wiring so we rewired the whole Jeep. It now sits with three alternator setup and dual 18 inch subwoofers. Loud, Yes.

WASABI
08-06-2013, 10:05 PM
WHAT?!? Are you serious? Larger gauge wire?

jnshk
08-06-2013, 11:09 PM
If you're going to be drawing significantly higher amperage, then it would be wise to at least consider and evaluate whether the wires from the battery to alternator are sufficiently sized or if they should be upgraded. If you're not going to be drawing significantly more amperage then you it shouldn't hurt anything, but bear in mind that you aren't really getting the full benefit of the higher amperage alternator either.

MiataMatt
08-06-2013, 11:13 PM
He beat me to it. The alternator won't put out more current then you're drawing. Unless you have a reckless jeep like mentioned, you should be okay with it...but its not worth the extra umph. Like turboing a prius. Will it work? Yeah.

WASABI
08-07-2013, 11:07 AM
If you're going to be drawing significantly higher amperage, then it would be wise to at least consider and evaluate whether the wires from the battery to alternator are sufficiently sized or if they should be upgraded. If you're not going to be drawing significantly more amperage then you it shouldn't hurt anything, but bear in mind that you aren't really getting the full benefit of the higher amperage alternator either.


He beat me to it. The alternator won't put out more current then you're drawing. Unless you have a reckless jeep like mentioned, you should be okay with it...but its not worth the extra umph. Like turboing a prius. Will it work? Yeah.

So I'll be OK if I don't try and add too much extra. Now the next question is, Am I loosing anything (HorsePower) by trying to use a larger amp alternator? It's the same size, and feels like it weighs the same.

-Jim

SM16RMSM
08-07-2013, 12:10 PM
http://www.powermastermotorsports.com/charge_wires.html

You can run the stock wiring but with a alternator having more amps, the voltage will be higher and that can cause the smaller wires to heat up and melt over time. That was the issue with the big alternator in the Jeep. It wasn't caused by the draw, but the stock wiring could not handle the higher voltage charging load. Needless to say, keep an eye on the wiring along the PPF. It it starts to get bubbles or anything that looks to be caused by heat, then you will want to consider replacing the wiring. It not really that hard to replace. Just takes a few extra hours to get done.

Most anyone installing a high amp alter should run thicker wiring regardless if the draw is the same as stock. This is my 0.02 cents.

jnshk
08-10-2013, 11:09 PM
Voltage should not change significantly if the voltage regulator is doing its job. The only time it would be higher with a high-amperage unit than it might with an OEM unit is when you are drawing so much current that the OEM alternator can't maintain the amperage at a full ~14 volts and you experience a drop in voltage. But it shouldn't ever be any higher than OEM limits as dictated by the voltage regulator. Or am I missing something here?

Essentially, swapping in a high-amperage alternator should create no noticeable change in voltage or amperage if all other elements are kept the same. However if you add lots of power-hungry components the OEM unit would be unable to maintain the amperage at a suitable voltage, but the higher amperage alternator will happily supply the juice and so you'd better be sure that your wiring is up to the task.

Of course, if the voltage regulator fails, the higher amperage alternator has the capability to destroy stuff much faster and more furiously.

WASABI
08-19-2013, 07:00 AM
Voltage should not change significantly if the voltage regulator is doing its job...
Of course, if the voltage regulator fails, the higher amperage alternator has the capability to destroy stuff much faster and more furiously.

(shivers) I'll look into a wire upgrade, just to be safe. Thanks guys.

-Jim

WASABI
09-27-2013, 08:24 AM
Not to bring this back up... but since I installed this new alternator, I have started the car and let it run for 15-20 minutes (on jack stands) and everything seemed fine. The last time I started it, it seemed to be running off just the battery... I say this because the windshield wiper was running slow, and the lights were dim yellow. Any thoughts? Oh, and I just remembered, one time I started it, and smoke started coming out from under the hood! I shut it off, popped the hood, but couldn't find out where it came from... VERY STRANGE. It started up and ran fine since then, with the exception of the non charging. BTW, my gauge cluster is out, so I cant't see any warning lights.


-Jim

kung fu jesus
09-27-2013, 08:35 AM
Sounds like something failed, just to protect the system-luckily. The instrument cluster going out means the tail lights probably don't work, IIRC. That's a blown relay or fuse, can't remember which one.

130 amps is a bit much, I would not risk that. Back in the day, people were putting in the alternators from the 323 GTX and the FC turbos. I believe they were 90 amps.

WASABI
09-27-2013, 08:59 AM
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-foMRU_ETOp0/UX_6LkFqUtI/AAAAAAAADzg/0CQIQvn3jNk/s400/6938280971_326960b48a_z.jpg

Jesus, I didn't think about the smoke equaling something failing (I should have). for some reason, I thought it might have been spilled oil from a recent oil change. Hmmmmm, where to start looking? Fuse? relay? wires?

Agent☣Orange
09-27-2013, 10:06 AM
Do you remember any smell with that smoke? Did you look inside the fuse box in the engine bay? I wonder if you got something backwards during the install. Do you have a multimeter to test voltage when the car is running? It should be about 14 volts.

WASABI
09-27-2013, 01:08 PM
It smelled bad, maybe plastic... that's all I remember. White smoke coming out of the side of the hood and light buckets. I think more on the Driver's side. Like I said, I have started her and run her (on jack stands) 3 or 4 times since. Other than running rich, everything seems normal. I will try to plug in the gauges to see if there are any warning lights on.

Agent☣Orange
09-27-2013, 01:32 PM
Sure seems like something burned. Wire insulation and fusible links will emit white smoke when burning and smell like plastic. Have you tested voltage at the battery while running? If it's 10v-12v, you're not charging. If you're at 17v+ something is seriously wrong and you'll start burning up stuff.

silvermazda
09-27-2013, 09:41 PM
agreed, if you have amazon prime I recommend the 20 buck innova multimeter, but any brand should work fine. Now if I remember correctly, it might be the "meter" or "tail/tailight" fuse near the OBD2 port. Or at least those are some of the fuses that control the gauge cluster and tail lights. In the back of the owner's manual there's a table of the fuses and descriptions. That should help your, but!! A few months ago I ran into a youtube video that had a similar problem of their alternator not charging and cluster being out. Look up user "scannerdanner" it will be a video with a black miata. Should solve your problems =) If i remember correctly, your oem alternator should still work, its just a solder or wire in your gauge cluster that went bad, as for the smoke under the hood, good luck.

atank
09-27-2013, 10:51 PM
--AdY8z1QfU

WASABI
09-28-2013, 12:36 AM
Thanks Yellow, and Anthony,

Well, I tried to start her today after work, and the battery was at 11.24 volts so she needed to have the charger put on. When I started her up, I put the multimeter on the battery terminals... no change! So she's not charging. Hmmm.

-Jim

Andy
09-28-2013, 07:44 AM
Are you sure you were using the tool properly?

SM16RMSM
09-28-2013, 08:43 AM
First, check the wiring under the hood from the alternator to the battery. Second, place the multimeter on the bolt behind the alternator to see if there is power at the alternator. You can also check the voltage at the back of the alternator while it running and see what it reads there. If voltage is still below 12, assume the worst and try to get the alternator warrantied.

WASABI
09-28-2013, 09:04 PM
Here is a short video (crappy Blackberry) of her dead... then on a battery charger to start, then with the multimeter on the battery.


http://youtu.be/5Uea_ArTaf8

Agent☣Orange
09-28-2013, 09:18 PM
Well, if the dash light is part of the circuit that "turns on" the alternator, have you tried installing the cluster and giving it a go?

WASABI
09-29-2013, 09:26 PM
Well, if the dash light is part of the circuit that "turns on" the alternator, have you tried installing the cluster and giving it a go?


Jesus, I don't know why the gauge cluster is necessary for your car to charge, but sure enough, I threw in a spare cluster (installing Revlimiter faces on original gauges :mrgreen:) and when I checked the battery, she was a steady 14.17 volts!

http://www.fagerquist.com/miata/build/charge-1.jpg

http://www.fagerquist.com/miata/build/charge-2.jpg

Of course, I've looked all around and have yet to find anything that would have caused the smoke.

Agent☣Orange
09-29-2013, 10:11 PM
http://i1194.photobucket.com/albums/aa375/YellowYata/Humor/Faces/IMG_6124_zps92f788ac.gif

WASABI
09-29-2013, 10:59 PM
http://th07.deviantart.net/fs70/PRE/i/2012/244/f/2/oh_yeah_by_analage-d5d7xif.png

SM16RMSM
09-29-2013, 11:34 PM
I would have never thought that the gauge cluster being pulled out would cause a no charge issue like that. wow

toms96mx5
11-22-2013, 02:29 PM
I knew GM cars and trucks used the light as and integral part of the charging circuit, didn't know Mazda did to but it doesn't surprise me. About a 130 amp alt being overkill, that is nothing compared to a guy that came into my work and asked me if he could get an 800 amp alternator for his old buick with a 350 chevy motor in it.

kung fu jesus
11-22-2013, 02:51 PM
Some BMWs, too. When that circuit goes kaput, those models won't start.

WASABI
11-26-2013, 09:28 AM
Some BMWs, too. When that circuit goes kaput, those models won't start.

Yeah, it was the craziest thing. She's been starting/running fine since I reconnected the gauges. I still haven't found were that smoking came from, the one time I started it. Nothing seems out of place.

Chops
11-28-2013, 11:50 AM
Did the smoke appear immediately after start-up or did it take a minute or so once things (head, exhaust manifold) started heating up?

If it was immediately after start-up, it was something electrical failing. If it took a little while, it was probably oil or something burning off from the said oil change you did.

Also, keep in mind "some" high output alternators will not put out sufficient juice until the engine reaches 1500 - 2000 rpms and will only produce 11.5 - 12 volts at idle. One of the disadvantages of high output alternators.