treefrog
07-10-2014, 12:28 PM
First of all, I have read all the information in the garage regarding bleeding procedures and I have read through various forum threads regarding troubles with bleeding clutches; I appreciate all the time and efforts that everyone has put into the details of each post. I thank you in advance for any attempts you can make with trying to help me solve this problem...I hope I've provided enough evidence for you!
Let me tell you the saga:
Part I – replaced clutch – went smoothly thanks to the detailed instructions provided on this and other forums. I drove the car after I replaced the clutch and it shifted and engaged the clutch smoothly and effectively. However, the engagement took place very close to the floor. I suspected air in the line so I decided to bleed the line using the hose, filled jar and assistant-in-the-car method (it has always worked for me with brakes in the past). There was no change in the engagement position though. I had read that slave cylinders can go on Miata’s so I decided to change the slave.
Part II – I purchase a slave cylinder from Advance Auto and replaced the old one. I then tried the “assistant bleeding method” and at this point, there was no resistance when the pedal was pushed down. During the attempts at bleeding, I noticed no bubbles coming into the fluid filled jar, but I also noticed no fluid entering the jar. I was stumped. I then read that the master cylinder may be to blame. So, I purchased a master cylinder from Advance Auto.
Part III – I read the procedure on how to bench bleed the master cylinder and after a few attempts I bled it my own way. I put the cylinder in the vise, with one hand I pushed the cylinder all the way in with a screwdriver and slowly backed it out will pouring fluid in (over a pan). I then pushed the cylinder in just a little bit to make sure only fluid came out and backed it out again while pouring fluid in so no air could enter. I was satisfied and the replaced the old master. I tried the assistant bleeding method again and this time a couple air bubbles popped out but then there weren’t any others and no fluid entered the fluid-filled jar. I was stumped again, until I thought I should probably bench bleed the slave cylinder. So I took off the slave and followed the same procedure described above. I replaced the slave and tried bleeding again – still no air or fluid coming out of the line. At this point, I remember reading that they sell vacuum bleeders at auto parts stores, so I bought a $30.00 Mitavac from Autozone.
Part IV – I tried the vacuum line on the bleeder of the slave cylinder and brought the vacuum up to about 25 Hg but was only getting bubbling from the vacuum line (I tested the vacuum before I used it to make sure all my connections were good). I then decided to disconnect the line from the slave and use the vacuum on that instead. This time, I was able to get fluid and air bubbles directly from the line. I also noticed the level in the reservoir going down. So, I vacuumed and added fluid for a while and then replaced the line. I then used the assistant method and still got no air or fluid to come out of the bleeder valve on the slave. I remembered reading about the gravity bleeding method, so I disconnected the line from the slave and let it hang. I noticed no fluid dripping out so I waited and started working on the brakes (another project). After a half hour, there was still not fluid coming out and the reservoir was not going down. I went back to the brakes, etc. I came back and all the fluid had drained out of the reservoir and there was a fluid in a pan I left under the detached slave hose. I was happy that at least I knew fluid could flow through the line! The reservoir was empty so I know air had entered the line. So I filled up the reservoir and put a vacuum to the slave cylinder line to prime it. Fluid began draining out so I quickly filled the reservoir again and reconnected the slave cylinder line. Since the reservoir had run dry, I decided to test and bench bleed the master cylinder again; this time with it still attached and using an assistant (my wife….she’s great throughout this I have to say…probably because she’s seen how frustrated I’ve been!). I first had her push the clutch pedal while I held a finger over the hole and there was definitely pressure and fluid sprayed out. I had her press and hold the clutch pedal down while I connected a hose and funnel to the outlet of the master. I poured fluid in as she slowly back out the clutch pedal, ensure only fluid entered.
Part V – I was sure it was going to bleed now using the assistant method. After all, I had bench bled both the new slave and new master and I had ensure that at least there was a decent amount of fluid in the line since it was draining as I reconnected the slave line. I figured some assistant bleeding would do the trick to get the remaining air out. I was wrong again. My wife reported there was initially some resistance on clutch pedal, but “when you fiddled around down there, it went away.” I think this is a clue, however, I can’t figure this one out. The “fiddling around” was me having her press and hold the clutch pedal down, me opening the slave bleeder valve (with the line attached and submerged in the jar of fluid), me closing the bleeder valve and telling her to let up on the pedal. The first time this was done, I saw a couple air bubbles rise in the jar, but the second and subsequent times, there again were no air bubbles and no fluid entered the jar. I again went back to the master cylinder and bench bled it on the car again suspecting there was not enough pressure to push the fluid down to the slave. I then went back to the assistant bleeder method and go the same results.
Thoughts –
1. Since my wife reported there was resistance initially, could there be a tiny hole somewhere in the line? I’m tend to think this isn’t the case because I would think fluid would be dripping from the line somewhere (unless I can’t generate enough pressure to push fluid out, but can generate enough pressure to push air out).
2. I suspected the new, but cheap slave and master, but when I bench bled them, they each generated pressure enough to “shoot” fluid through their respective outlets.
3. I find it strange that I can generate a vacuum from the line that goes to the slave, but I can generate a vacuum from the slave bleeder valve. I suspected a bad connection with the line that was attached to the bleeder valve, so I unscrewed the valve and shoved a tapered rubber connector into the bleeder hole (it came with the vacuum kit). I still was unable to pull a vacuum through the bleeder valve hole. I do find this to be odd and it makes me suspect the slave cylinder, but I read in a forum that it someone else was unable to vacuum or pump from a Miata’s slave bleeder valve.
I can’t figure this one out. I am ready to return the slave cylinder and I am also ready to replace the clutch lines. I rather not do either though because I don’t want to just go and replace something else without evidence that it may be faulty.
Any ideas? I’m out of them. Thanks!
Let me tell you the saga:
Part I – replaced clutch – went smoothly thanks to the detailed instructions provided on this and other forums. I drove the car after I replaced the clutch and it shifted and engaged the clutch smoothly and effectively. However, the engagement took place very close to the floor. I suspected air in the line so I decided to bleed the line using the hose, filled jar and assistant-in-the-car method (it has always worked for me with brakes in the past). There was no change in the engagement position though. I had read that slave cylinders can go on Miata’s so I decided to change the slave.
Part II – I purchase a slave cylinder from Advance Auto and replaced the old one. I then tried the “assistant bleeding method” and at this point, there was no resistance when the pedal was pushed down. During the attempts at bleeding, I noticed no bubbles coming into the fluid filled jar, but I also noticed no fluid entering the jar. I was stumped. I then read that the master cylinder may be to blame. So, I purchased a master cylinder from Advance Auto.
Part III – I read the procedure on how to bench bleed the master cylinder and after a few attempts I bled it my own way. I put the cylinder in the vise, with one hand I pushed the cylinder all the way in with a screwdriver and slowly backed it out will pouring fluid in (over a pan). I then pushed the cylinder in just a little bit to make sure only fluid came out and backed it out again while pouring fluid in so no air could enter. I was satisfied and the replaced the old master. I tried the assistant bleeding method again and this time a couple air bubbles popped out but then there weren’t any others and no fluid entered the fluid-filled jar. I was stumped again, until I thought I should probably bench bleed the slave cylinder. So I took off the slave and followed the same procedure described above. I replaced the slave and tried bleeding again – still no air or fluid coming out of the line. At this point, I remember reading that they sell vacuum bleeders at auto parts stores, so I bought a $30.00 Mitavac from Autozone.
Part IV – I tried the vacuum line on the bleeder of the slave cylinder and brought the vacuum up to about 25 Hg but was only getting bubbling from the vacuum line (I tested the vacuum before I used it to make sure all my connections were good). I then decided to disconnect the line from the slave and use the vacuum on that instead. This time, I was able to get fluid and air bubbles directly from the line. I also noticed the level in the reservoir going down. So, I vacuumed and added fluid for a while and then replaced the line. I then used the assistant method and still got no air or fluid to come out of the bleeder valve on the slave. I remembered reading about the gravity bleeding method, so I disconnected the line from the slave and let it hang. I noticed no fluid dripping out so I waited and started working on the brakes (another project). After a half hour, there was still not fluid coming out and the reservoir was not going down. I went back to the brakes, etc. I came back and all the fluid had drained out of the reservoir and there was a fluid in a pan I left under the detached slave hose. I was happy that at least I knew fluid could flow through the line! The reservoir was empty so I know air had entered the line. So I filled up the reservoir and put a vacuum to the slave cylinder line to prime it. Fluid began draining out so I quickly filled the reservoir again and reconnected the slave cylinder line. Since the reservoir had run dry, I decided to test and bench bleed the master cylinder again; this time with it still attached and using an assistant (my wife….she’s great throughout this I have to say…probably because she’s seen how frustrated I’ve been!). I first had her push the clutch pedal while I held a finger over the hole and there was definitely pressure and fluid sprayed out. I had her press and hold the clutch pedal down while I connected a hose and funnel to the outlet of the master. I poured fluid in as she slowly back out the clutch pedal, ensure only fluid entered.
Part V – I was sure it was going to bleed now using the assistant method. After all, I had bench bled both the new slave and new master and I had ensure that at least there was a decent amount of fluid in the line since it was draining as I reconnected the slave line. I figured some assistant bleeding would do the trick to get the remaining air out. I was wrong again. My wife reported there was initially some resistance on clutch pedal, but “when you fiddled around down there, it went away.” I think this is a clue, however, I can’t figure this one out. The “fiddling around” was me having her press and hold the clutch pedal down, me opening the slave bleeder valve (with the line attached and submerged in the jar of fluid), me closing the bleeder valve and telling her to let up on the pedal. The first time this was done, I saw a couple air bubbles rise in the jar, but the second and subsequent times, there again were no air bubbles and no fluid entered the jar. I again went back to the master cylinder and bench bled it on the car again suspecting there was not enough pressure to push the fluid down to the slave. I then went back to the assistant bleeder method and go the same results.
Thoughts –
1. Since my wife reported there was resistance initially, could there be a tiny hole somewhere in the line? I’m tend to think this isn’t the case because I would think fluid would be dripping from the line somewhere (unless I can’t generate enough pressure to push fluid out, but can generate enough pressure to push air out).
2. I suspected the new, but cheap slave and master, but when I bench bled them, they each generated pressure enough to “shoot” fluid through their respective outlets.
3. I find it strange that I can generate a vacuum from the line that goes to the slave, but I can generate a vacuum from the slave bleeder valve. I suspected a bad connection with the line that was attached to the bleeder valve, so I unscrewed the valve and shoved a tapered rubber connector into the bleeder hole (it came with the vacuum kit). I still was unable to pull a vacuum through the bleeder valve hole. I do find this to be odd and it makes me suspect the slave cylinder, but I read in a forum that it someone else was unable to vacuum or pump from a Miata’s slave bleeder valve.
I can’t figure this one out. I am ready to return the slave cylinder and I am also ready to replace the clutch lines. I rather not do either though because I don’t want to just go and replace something else without evidence that it may be faulty.
Any ideas? I’m out of them. Thanks!