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Thread: sc problems

  1. #1
    3,000 rpm - starting to feel the power BlitzWing's Avatar
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    sc problems

    So I just got m car back from the tuners after having my JR kit fitted with an MS2 ecu and Aem wideband. and its at best a peace of crap to drive.

    I guess what I'm after is some ammunition to bring to the table when I bring it back. I wont drop any names yet as they have been more then helpful so far but right now their best guess is that the coolant temp sensor has died on the dyno run or after the last test drive as they have told me it was totally fine before I took it out for a test drive with a mechanic.

    So the right now the car...
    wont turnover unless I hammer the throttle multiple times.
    will stall if I take my foot off the pedal while cold.
    when its warmed up the idle will stick to 2500rpm.
    when pulling away its rather lumpy unless I give it some gas.
    one warmed up it will sit at 1100rpm but from time to time just hesitate when trying to pull away smoothly.

    a quick google says it might be the sensor but the car has been fine up till now so its quite a coincidence.

    Since its winter and I've not had a day off to look at it in the light for long all I can say right now on a visual inspection is that rather then welding the wide band down at the bottom of the manifold after the last 2 branches join they have put it in the normal spot. So on my Fujitsubo its only picking up gasses from one cylinder and frankly its maybe too close to the exit on the head to get a good reading (I hear 18" is the minimum) the current location cant be more then 14".

    I'm also thinking maybe the tune is bad. I know the UEGO needs to have custom settings rather then the defualt AEM ones the ms2 gives.

    so all in all I've paid for a dyno run and 8 hours work for my car to run like shit. not happy if anyone else has other idea's I'd love to put them forward as well.

  2. #2
    Ninja Messiah kung fu jesus's Avatar
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    Tell us the MS settings and show the tables.

  3. #3
    3,000 rpm - starting to feel the power BlitzWing's Avatar
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    ok time to show my noob ways.... how do I do that. just plug it in and screet shot the screen?

  4. #4
    Ninja Messiah kung fu jesus's Avatar
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  5. #5
    Ninja Messiah kung fu jesus's Avatar
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    Before this becomes a mitigated disaster, there are things you should know. You have two, maybe three options here. First, knowing what you are installing, familiarizing yourself with their basic operations and controls so you can monitor them to spot issues. Second, have someone else do it. Third, a hybrid of the two so you can sort out small issues without reverting to the second for each issue that crops up.

    We don't know what was installed with the SC; larger injectors, larger fuel pump, ancillary electronics, secondary intake cooling systems, etc. From general references to your posts, it seems like the shop that did the work, nor you, really understand the components installed. I am trying hard to not sound condescending or chiding, that is not the intention. We cannot possibly know where to start without the basic information. From there, diagnosing the issues from the tune maps or datalogs is going to be akin to teaching someone with spinal injuries to walk again. Power adders are great and there is a LOT of information out there on each one, but when those become modified and mated with an aftermarket ECU, the answers you need become more specialized and require specific knowledge. So, while we all want to dig in and help, I just wanted to point to the quickest, most direct solution...find a specialist that has GOOD experience with these systems. If the car runs as poorly as stated, it would cause more harm than good to try to keep it running.

  6. #6
    2,000 rpm - light wheelspin, no bog here! Satisaii's Avatar
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    Easy to tell coolant temp in Tuner Studio. Just hook it up, pull up the gauge, and read it. I would blame a wiring issue before a sending unit though. Use a multimeter to verify continuity between the sending unit and the pin on the ECU wiring harness. Wiggle the wires some to see if it may be intermittent, especially where the wires go into the connector. If that checks out good, measure the resistance between the engine block and the contact on the sending unit. All those things do is change resistance as a function of temperature.

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  8. #7
    2,000 rpm - light wheelspin, no bog here! Satisaii's Avatar
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    And yes, find someone who really knows the Megasquirt well to help you. All it takes is one mistake to really ruin your day, and I doubt the dyno operator and tuner is going to pay for your engine repairs.

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  10. #8
    3,000 rpm - starting to feel the power BlitzWing's Avatar
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    I understand its a massive amount of info to really deal with this. So firstly thanks for helping. I don't intend to do it myself I'm going to let the guys who I paid to do it right the first time sort it out. I just want some info to help them also if I can know a few things before hand I should be able to catch them if they try and blind me with science etc.

    car is as follows....

    Yellow OEM injectors, OEM fuel pump, modded fuel rail so its now duel feed. AEM uego wideband, It has a GM IAT sensor fitted to the dummy TB however the tuner still used the OEM MAF (despite me asking not to as I intended to remove it), Fujitsubo manifold (421) aftermarket rad with OEM thermostat and the rest of the SC kit is all from the JR parts. the ECU is a MS2 basic I believe.

  11. #9
    Ninja Messiah kung fu jesus's Avatar
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    Like John mentioned above, I would bet it's a wiring issue. On top of that, I suspect it may be a ECU setting or two that is wrong.

    As for the MAF, are they running the ECU off the stock MAF or the AIT on the dummy TB?

  12. #10
    Idling - Listen to it purr...
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    Doesn't make sense why they would run the MAF if you have MS...you need to source out someone who knows what they are doing before these guys f-up your motor!

  13. #11
    3,000 rpm - starting to feel the power BlitzWing's Avatar
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    I should really update this... Well I gave them a 2nd chance and what I got back was a nightmare. Firstly it took till the 9th to finally get it back and it was in a sorry mess when I collected it.

    Even with the GM IAT sensor and a new ECU coolant temp sensor its still got a crappy idle and cold start is just as shit is before but it will act normally if I let it warm up kill the engine and do a warm start (it cant seem to switch between cold start and hot maps) Turns out even with an E-mail saying the MS2 was originally for a NA build they might have just tweaked the pre-installed maps rather then start from fresh. So its possible that its rocking an NA tune for the cold start and is only really tuned on the warm tune.

    check out this pro install of the vac line to the map sensor


    this is how these "pros" left the passenger side foot well



    But wait gets worse.... They actually stole shit. at first I noticed they swapped my rad cap, Its was a Mishimoto cap so its nice looking but not expensive, I was pissed and the guy at the shop claimed he knew nothing. I just told him to find it and send it to me. But the true horror was when I got home. I had a 2nd throttle body, ISC, Airbox and the original pulley taken out from the trunk. They found everything but the cap 2 weeks later and mailed them to me the TB and ISC had been taken apart by someone so clearly they were not lost.

    But wait it gets even worse... So turns on the 2nd time they swapped belts and played with the tensioner. How do I know this? Well I got home one day to catch a burning smell. They had forced it so far over to one side that the belt was cutting into the coolant return.


    I know why they did it. In my box of parts I left them was a reduction pulley for the M45. Problem is that with the new pulley the angle the belt returns and the smaller size means it has to be cranked up more then normal meaning that with the early JR tensioner they belt pinches or rubs on the hose. To fix this I picked up a smaller belt but sadly it was a little too short on its own so I've put money down on a TDR tensioner that will let me run a Gates 4pk1280 rather then the slightly too big 4pk1313.... and if they had just left on the original pulley or swapped it back I would not have to bother doing this but I just dont have the tools to take off the smaller pulley.

  14. #12
    6,000 rpm - mere mortals would shift JamieH's Avatar
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    I think I'd lose my damn mind and common sense if a shop treated my car and me like this. Hope you get it sorted out, man.

  15. #13
    3,000 rpm - starting to feel the power mx54life's Avatar
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    Ditch the MS idea. Unless you want to get involved. Get one of these JR non-adjustable black box or the TDR card or even the Fast Forward card and be done with it. They're bandages yes but they stop the bleeding lol. I have the first one and not a single problem. Purrs like a cat and very reliable. I don't race so excuse my shallowness, I can hang in the highway, I can stretch out well exiting a ramp and may kick someone's a$$ from a stand still if my timing is right. I did that one time with a Vette and on the next light he was obliged to ask what was under my hood lol.

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  17. #14
    3,000 rpm - starting to feel the power BlitzWing's Avatar
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    actually have the timing/fuel cards in the shed but felt like MS was the way to go if I wanted a more economical car to run as I hear the fuel cars just dump fuel in on boost.

  18. #15
    Ninja Messiah kung fu jesus's Avatar
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    Oh boy. 4 choices:

    Remove the S/C, MS2 and read up about installing and running the sytem until you feel comfortable to do it yourself.

    Remove the MS2, make the S/C stock (no reduction pulleys), add the basic black box gizmo in your shed.

    Remove the S/C, install MS2 and run that on base maps until you feel comfortable with how it works, how to read and understand the maps, and know how to diagnose small issues.

    Get a qualified recommendation on another shop to fix everything.

    Good luck! I would be punching babies in this situation.

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