Page 7 of 7 FirstFirst 1234567
Results 91 to 98 of 98

Thread: Ultimate Miata Coilovers Thread, what are you using?

  1. #91
    6,000 rpm - mere mortals would shift HarryB's Avatar
    Drives
    '04 Strato Blue NB2
    Location
    Greece
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    5,933
    Thanks Given
    6,670
    Thanked 2,273 Times in 1,330 Posts
    And that means we perfectly agree ;)

  2. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to HarryB For This Useful Post:

    DarylSibcy (04-19-2019),kung fu jesus (04-19-2019)

  3. #92
    2,000 rpm - light wheelspin, no bog here! DarylSibcy's Avatar
    Drives
    Red 1990 Miata w/ITBs ;)
    Location
    Isle of Man - Middle of... Somewhere...
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Posts
    464
    Thanks Given
    258
    Thanked 279 Times in 150 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Hyper View Post
    Bro but what do you expect for the price and quality of the components? Upgrading for $995.00 is a big difference from OEM stock suspension. If you wsnt to spend $3000 on coil overs and suspension parts on a 2000 market value car that’s completely fine.
    as for me the Meister R paired with aftermarket sway bars made a big difference from stock suspension. With the OEM suspension the car felt like it was floating and unstable at high speed. This car is daily driver when I switched to the 13 pounds light weight FD wheels and 225 50 16 tires for extra comfort it transformed into a handling beast. The biggest issue I had so far is adjusting the damper settings at height speed. I am happy where I am right but wish was bit flatter ride.

    The MeisterR's I had on my NA were awful, granted they were the old "Zeta-S" range, I can't see what they'd change enough for the CRD's to go from awful to the "best" coilover on the market. The only reason I had Meister's was because FM's FOX's didn't exist at the time. Yes, they're more expensive, but they're also purpose built by a company that's reputable for knowing their way around miata's for over 30 years, so I trust their ability on how to design suspension for a miata. I'd never even heard of Meister before looking for some coilovers....

    A flatter ride comes from well sorted shocks, springs and sways. My car rides really flat and the sways are on their "loose" setting, so no complaints here...

    Honestly. I'd back a DIY NB Bilstein shock/FM spring combo any day over another set of MeisterR's.
    You want a good car. I want a good miata.

  4. #93
    4,000 rpm - entering the fun zone Slampen's Avatar
    Drives
    '95 BRG 1.8
    Location
    Ski, Norway
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    1,135
    Thanks Given
    1,287
    Thanked 441 Times in 237 Posts
    I would have gladly kept my crd+'s if they had tuv.....

    Sent fra min SM-G935F via Tapatalk

  5. #94
    4,000 rpm - entering the fun zone Hyper's Avatar
    Drives
    Black NB Miata
    Location
    Miami, FL
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    1,436
    Thanks Given
    172
    Thanked 420 Times in 254 Posts
    You guys can say what you want. Go to miata.net then to the NC suspension sub forum and read all the positive reviews for the NC platform. Nothing but great reviews for MeisterR CRD coilovers. I am sure there are other and better coilover kits out there. For $995.00, I am very happy I went that route with my NC
    Attached Images Attached Images

  6. The Following User Says Thank You to Hyper For This Useful Post:

    Slampen (04-20-2019)

  7. #95
    6,000 rpm - mere mortals would shift HarryB's Avatar
    Drives
    '04 Strato Blue NB2
    Location
    Greece
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    5,933
    Thanks Given
    6,670
    Thanked 2,273 Times in 1,330 Posts
    I don't disagree, and especially on the NC platform I have near zero experience. BTW the car looks absolutely fantastic.

  8. #96
    Mod Squad
    Drives
    2016 Ceramic GT
    Location
    Bentonville, Arkansas
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    9,294
    Thanks Given
    2,074
    Thanked 2,451 Times in 1,353 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Greasemonkey2000 View Post
    There is a new option that a guy on another forum has started doing custom shocks, kind of like Fat Cat Motorsports just a lot cheaper. I will share the information if a moderator gives me the ok.
    Sorry about the delay. Go ahead and share - we like info.

  9. #97
    5,000 rpm - there be torque here! Greasemonkey2000's Avatar
    Drives
    2001 NB2 aka Misfire
    Location
    Temple, Tx is where Chad resides.
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    3,973
    Thanks Given
    4,901
    Thanked 2,425 Times in 1,233 Posts
    First off I definitely recommend checking out his first thread because there is ALOT of good information. Really not a cut and paste affair as some of the context would be lost without the responses.
    Quote Originally Posted by twguru View Post
    Hey guys,

    this thread is actually a continuation of my original "DIY High-End Suspension on a $1000 Budget" thread found here, so now that I've succumbed to the overwhelming responses I've received from that thread, due to popular demand & request, I'm now posting up a sales thread as an Official Vendor.

    Introduction
    those who follow my contributions to this community know me as TWGURU or Tony. Whilst my time in this community has been relatively short, I like to believe I have contributed a fair amount of "suspension tuning theory" in this short time, especially when it comes to my area of speciality; pressure tuning.

    This is an area that, afaik, has not really been covered much. This is probably likely due to most coilover manufacturers not even knowing what it is, or don't really pay much attention to (cough cough...Bilstein...). I know Shaikh @ FCM has briefly touched on the topic (I highly recommend watching his Youtube videos), but hasn't really expanded into the reasoning behind it like I have done in my original thread.

    Those who have enjoyed my original thread and find it educational should now have a better understanding of the importance of proper QC techniques, why Hysteresis and Cavitation is bad and, most importantly, how a damper actually functions and the role it plays in the suspension system.

    Taking these important principles and applying them in the real world is the basis and foundation of all the dampers that I spec, build and tune for both my students (I teach suspension tuning theory to various manufacturers/specialists across the globe) and now my paying customers.

    It is from this, I am proud to announce the start of VST: Veritas Suspension Technologies. Veritas is latin for truth, with our aim being to Unveil the truth behind the suspension industry

    The Hardware

    Our Penske style valving:


    Valving - Penske style* Double Digressive Pistons/Parabolic Needles/Rebound Jets. These are machined to within 99.9% of the tolerances of the off-the-shelf Penske components. Made in USA
    Shims - Sandvik 20C Carbon Steel Shims. Imported from Sweden, these shims were developed specifically for damper valving and are not the cheap/generic shims that are commonly used by our competitors
    Seals - We only use genuine Viton Low-Friction O-Rings and High-Temp BUNA Seals
    Oil - We use genuine UK-Formula Silkolene RSF 2.5w high-VI shock fluid. This fluid will retain it's performance properties at extreme temperatures without breaking down
    Monotube Bodies - We use 52mm OD, fine-threaded carbon steel bodies with zinc electro-plating for corrosion resistance. Internal surfaces are impregnated with an anti-friction compound using a proprietary lapping process. Our 4mm thick walls ensure your safety. Made in Taiwan
    Piston Rods - We use 14mm OD (non-strut) and 20mm OD (strut) chromoly-steel piston rods. External surfaces are impregnated with an anti-friction compound using a proprietary lapping process. Made in Taiwan
    Bottom Caps - The majority of coilovers on the market use standard self-healing rubber seals to charge their dampers. Whilst these serve their purpose, they are prone to leaking and, most importantly, make pressure tuning extremely difficult (these rely on Nitrogen Needles to charge, and will leak anywhere between 20-50psi as soon as you remove the needle). We use industry standard schrader valves (same as tire valves) that leak less (all high-pressure dampers will leak nitrogen pressure. Anyone that says otherwise don't know what they are talking about) and allow precise pressure tuning to within 5psi. Made in Taiwan

    *If you are wondering why we say Penske style, it is because their default off-the-shelf components do not fit our piston rods without a lot of machining work, so instead, we sourced the machined components from elsewhere hence "style" as you cannot buy these directly from Penske

    Our mounts (These ones are for the ND):


    Upper Mounts - We use Hard Anodized 6061-T6 Aluminum with a genuine Japanese NMB Spherical Bearing for both Front & Rear Mounts. Made in Taiwan/Japan
    Perches/Lower Mounts/Collars - We use Hard Anodized 6061-T6 Aluminum. Made in Taiwan
    Springs - We use genuine Swift Springs which have a lifetime guarantee against spring sag. Made in Japan
    Coil Rotation - We use genuine Swift teflon thrust sheets between the spring/mount surface to allow the spring to rotate independently of the damper body. These do not rust nor require maintenance like Torrington bearings do, and are self-lubricating. Made in Japan

    Adjustability

    Rebound-Only Adjustable Damping - By default, this is the setup we use and recommend. As compression damping is fixed, we will offer two different tunes for our customers to choose from; a "Street Tune" for general road compliance, and a "Road/Race Tune" for those wiling to sacrifice compliance for performance. Both of these tunes will be based on high performance street tires (not R-Comps), with the Road/Race tune offering compression damping at the upper limit of traction threshold

    Simultanous Compression/Rebound Adjustable Damping - Whilst we highly recommend against this setup, we understand why some would prefer this and we can accomodate if required. This will use the same valving profiles as our Rebound-Only Street and Road/Race tunes; the only difference being you can adjust compression as well. Be forewarned though; lowering your compression will also lower your rebound, resulting in a softer but also bouncier ride. Likewise, increasing compression will also increase your rebound, resulting in a harsher ride

    Independently Adjustable Damping - Via the use of external reservoirs, these will allow you to adjust the compression damping independently from the rebound damping. What this means is, if you want to lower your compression damping for road compliance, you can do so without having to worry about pogo'ing all over the place. Likewise, if you want to increase your compression damping (to the upper limit of traction threshold for your tires), you may do so without having to worry about your rear end skipping all over the place

    Ride Height Adjustment - Although we utilize threaded/adjustable lower mounts, these are NOT used to adjust ride height (contrary to other manufacturers beliefs). The sole purpose of the adjustable lower mounts is to allow you to set your desired bump/droop travel; typically, you set this to a 1:1 ratio between Tire : Damper. You would then lower/raise your vehicle using the lower spring perch. As we use linear springs, pre-loading the spring while unloaded does not change nor affect the spring rate (unless pre-loaded higher than static spring compression which you'll never do). If you adjust ride height using the lower mount, you will change your Tire : Damper ratio which you do not want to do

    Tuning

    Those who have been following my original thread (linked at the start of this post. If you've not yet had the chance to read it, please feel free to do so. You may (or may not) learn a lot from it) will have a better understanding of our views & philosophy when it comes to the intricacies of damper valving & tuning. To cut a long story short, we tune our dampers based on:

    1) Pressure Tuning
    This is one of the most important parts of damper tuning and, unfortunately, is lacking from the majority of coilovers currently on the market. The process consists of a combination of rod displacement, chamber volume and nitrogen pressure calculations. It is via pressure tuning you can fine tune:

    - Hysteresis. Also know as valving lag, and is the valving delay between the opening (acceleration) and closing (deceleration) phases of the compression and rebound strokes. When looking at shock dyno graphs, it is important that you view the Force vs Absolute Velocity Graph as this clearly shows any issues with the valving as shown below

    - Cavitation. This is when the damper oil pressure drops to zero and vaporizes, which results in decreased damping forces. In monotube dampers, this happens when there is not enough nitrogen pressure to overcome the pressure drop caused during the compression stroke. Consistent cavitation will result in the damper oil breaking down and leads to damper fade

    - Damper Response. All monotube dampers are gas pressurized and have what is called an internal gas spring. This is the initial force that needs to be overcome before the damper can start functioning (i.e the rod moving). Too high an internal gas pressure will result in an increased gas spring force which results in decreased damper response

    A competitors damper with bad/non-existent pressure tuning:


    A VST Stage 3 damper with proper pressure tuning:


    It is not difficult to determine which graph above is the better performing damper. Viewing only a basic single-line Average Force vs Absolute Velocity Graph (which simply averages the open & close phases) or Compression Closed/Rebound Open Graph (which only shows 50% of the results) are meaningless as they hide any potential issues as shown in the graph above. Unfortunately, those are precisely what most of our competitors will show you in their marketing materials.

    2) Valve Tuning
    Double Digressive Piston - We use this style of piston as it generates a quick ramp up of damping pressure at low damper speeds (user-controlled input) allowing increased responsiveness and stability, and "blows off" damping pressure at higher damper speeds (bumps) allowing increased comfort and control

    Critical Damping - This is described as the damping force required to control the oscillations of the suspension (i.e the energy stored in the spring) and return it to equilibrium. Too little damping force (underdamped) and your damper is unable to control the energy released from the spring, causing a bouncy or floaty ride. Too much damping force (overdamped) and your damper overpowers your spring, causing harshness and loss of traction. We generally valve all of our dampers to within 65-70% of Critical Damping @ 3"/sec damper velocity (Between 0-5"/sec is where the average vehicle will spend the majority of it's time). To calculate this value, we use a 2 DOF (Degree of Freedom) model which utilizes Vehicle Sprung & Unpsrung Weights, Damper & Spring Motion Ratios and Tire Spring Rates

    3) Natural Ride Frequencies
    Before we can tune the valving, we need to determine the spring rates required. Unlike our competitors that choose their spring rates (this can be inaccurate, as what feels soft on one car may feel harsh on another), we calculate the correct spring rate balance using natural ride frequencies with a ratio of approx. 1:1.2 (front:rear). Typically, these frequencies are (but can vary slightly):

    Street Car - 1.0-1.5hz
    Sports Car - 1.5-2.0hz
    Track Car (Non-Aero) - 2.0-2.5hz
    Track Car (Aero) - 2.5-3.0hz

    4) Quality Control
    Damper Bleeding - This is the process of bleeding/removing air from the damper during assembly. A monotube damper works on the premise of 3 individual chambers: Rebound Chamber, Compression Chamber and Gas Chamber. The Rebound & Compression Chamber must only be filled with oil, which is, for all intents and purposes, non-compressible. The Gas Chamber must only be filled with gas (usually Nitrogen) and is compressible. If there are air pockets inside the Rebound and/or Compression Chambers, then these turn from a non-compressible state to compressible state and Hysteresis occurs. Unfortunately, a large % of the oil in a bottle/drum is dissolved air. If, during assembly, this air is not removed from the oil, then you will have "compressible oil" inside your Rebound/Compression Chambers. Budget manufacturers don't care about this (or even know the reason why). Most good manufacturers will spend 20+ minutes manually pumping the piston rod up/down the damper body to bleed the air. Unfortunately, this only gets you 90% of the way there. The proper way to do it, and the only way to bleed 100% of the air out of the damper is to use a process by which air is vacuumed out of the damper body and oil is vacuum-filtered via an automatic Vacuum Bleeding process. All VST Stage 2-4 dampers are Vacuum Bled

    Dyno Testing - In addition to dyno tuning, all VST Dampers are individually tested on industry-standard MTS Shock Dynamometers to check for valving inconsistencies and issues. All Stage 2-4 customers will, during our build process, be updated with live dyno results showing them the progress of their dampers. There is zero excuse for any coilover manufacturer not to offer you these results.

    Put simply, if a coilover manufacturer cannot supply you with a Force vs Absolute Velocity Graph for your exact damper, then they are usually a trading company selling cheap mass-manufactured coilover kits from the Taiwanese-Trio with non-existent QC. If they will not supply you with one for your exact damper, or want to charge you money to do so, then they have something to hide.

    Manufacturing
    The one question that will always be asked is Where are these manufactured?. That is a good question and the answer to that is globally. Why do I say this? The reason is because:

    1) All of our components, as described above, are imported from several different countries: USA, Japan, Sweden, United Kingdom and Taiwan
    2) Although I am from Walnut, CA, my job requires me to travel the globe. However, because my job is in this exact same industry, it means that I can build and tune dampers to the exact same specifications no matter which location I am at (due to all of my clients & students having the proper equipment/facilities). A set of dampers could be shipped from USA one week, then shipping from Australia the next!
    '01 NB2 aka MisF1re: http://mazdaroadster.net/showthread....218#post207218
    '97 M aka Warbird, gone but not forgotten: http://mazdaroadster.net/showthread....B&goto=newpost
    Instagram: @greasemonkey2000

  10. #98
    5,000 rpm - there be torque here! Greasemonkey2000's Avatar
    Drives
    2001 NB2 aka Misfire
    Location
    Temple, Tx is where Chad resides.
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    3,973
    Thanks Given
    4,901
    Thanked 2,425 Times in 1,233 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by twguru View Post
    The Product
    If you've managed to read through all of that, well done. If not, please scroll back up and read through it all. The reason I say this is because we want all of our customers to understand exactly what VST are about, and why we do what we do.

    For our Coilover Kits, we have split these into 4 separate stages, however, they all have the following in common:

    - The same Hardware as detailed above
    - The same Adjustability as detailed above (exc. the independently adjustable reservoirs)
    - The same Tuning procedure as detailed above
    - You get to choose the lengths and stroke of the dampers that you require from our inventory (we have a multitude of damper body lengths and rod strokes available) and, unlike our competitors, are not locked into what they decide to give you
    - You get to choose the spring lengths and rates that you require, from 4" to 11" in length, and from 4kg/mm to 50kg/mm. We will, of course, assist you in calculating the correct Natural Ride Frequencies
    - If you already have your own linear springs or wish to purchase your own (these must be 62-65mm ID), you can remove the default Swift option (Springs & Thrust Sheets) and deduct $200 from the price
    - We will ship worldwide. Shipping is flat-rate $100 to North America, Western Europe, South-East Asia and Australasia. For other regions, please contact us
    - These are available for NA/NB, NC and ND
    - Lead time for Stage 1 Kits are ~ 2-3 days
    - Lead time for Stage 2/3 Kits are ~ 2-3 weeks
    - Stage 4 Kits are currently being tested

    VST Stage 1 (DIY Kit) - $1000 <- Industry first. AFAIK, no other company offers this, certainly not in "Kit" form anyway. This was the original intention of my DIY thread listed above. Suffice to say, it has come to fruition. Can be upgraded to Stage 4 at a later date
    Lowest priced option. These will be available in a Street tune and a Road/Race tune, but the customer would need to build and bleed the dampers themselves. Of course, we will offer a full guide on how to do this and will be available to help every step of the way. If I'm in your area during my travels, I may even be able to stop by and assist.

    VST Stage 2 (Pre-Assembled Kit) - $1250 <- Similar to what most are used to when buying a coilover kit, but without the QC issues. Can be upgraded to Stage 4 at a later date
    A kit with pre-assembled dampers. Customer just needs to assemble the mounts/collars/springs (they will be packaged individually) onto the dampers and install it onto their car. More expensive, but the actual dampers would be built, bled and QC'd by me personally with a semi-custom tune (to match their chosen spring rates, corner weights and tires). These will be available in a Street tune and a Road/Race tune. This is basically similar to what you'd get from an "off-the-shelf" kit from another vendor, but will be customised for your exact vehicle and without the QC issues inherent with "off-the-shelf"

    VST Stage 3 (Custom-Valved Kit) - $1500 <- Similar to what you'd get if you were to spend $3k+ from a more established brand. Can be upgraded to Stage 4 at a later date
    A custom tuned kit. Similar to Stage 2, but I will personally tune the damping curve to your required specifications. If you have a little more knowledge as to what you want out of your dampers, you don't have to rely on me to tell you what you need/want; I will just tune the curve to match as close-as-possible (within the limits of our valving) to what you want. Want a steeper compression ramp? Not a problem. Want a set that resembles your Xida's, KW, Ohlins or Penske's? Not a problem.

    VST Stage 4 (Independently Adjustable Kit) - $TBC (will be ~$2500). ETA 1-2 Months <- Similar to what you'd get if you were to spend $5k+ from a more established brand
    Similar to our Stage 3 Kit, but including external reservoirs allowing independent compression adjustments.

    If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to ask!

    Tony
    I have spoke to Tony via email numerous times and he is very helpful and very knowledgeable. Again really reminds me of Shaikh from Fat Cat Motorsports. This is the route I think I will be going. I will see if he would be interested in joining here to add to the conversations about suspensions.
    '01 NB2 aka MisF1re: http://mazdaroadster.net/showthread....218#post207218
    '97 M aka Warbird, gone but not forgotten: http://mazdaroadster.net/showthread....B&goto=newpost
    Instagram: @greasemonkey2000

  11. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Greasemonkey2000 For This Useful Post:

    HarryB (08-02-2021),Slampen (04-23-2019)

Page 7 of 7 FirstFirst 1234567

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •