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Thread: 256/256 cams on a naturally aspirated 1.6

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    2,000 rpm - light wheelspin, no bog here! Infedora's Avatar
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    256/256 cams on a naturally aspirated 1.6

    Every time I post a question about 1.6 mods I feel like I'm trolling you guys, but I am serious (but perhaps not sensible ;)

    Any measurable returns with a standalone ecu? Other than finding a dusty pair on somebody's used parts pile is there any manufacturers that have a reasonable price?

    Open to suggestions other than swap in a 1.8.

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    2,000 rpm - light wheelspin, no bog here! DarylSibcy's Avatar
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    A stand-alone ECU will net you power across the board, probably by the biggest margain - tech has moved forward.

    Cams aren’t cheap for a reason, if they are they’re crap...

    Generally from what I’ve seen 256 is about as high as you should go if you don’t want to kill your torque figures. Running Piper Cams myself, roughly 238 intake / 256 exhaust. They provide solid power, but the intake could be beefed up a tad.

    The only major issues you’ll have are with the tuning, and the valve train - if you get a really hot cam (say 256/264), you’ll have to start looking at the valves, shims and updated lifters. It’s not cheap work
    You want a good car. I want a good miata.

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    2,000 rpm - light wheelspin, no bog here! Infedora's Avatar
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    Certainly not sensible. I'm beginning to think its time to revisit the UK with a big suitcase. Seems there is more for me to find there. Wonder if anyone is selling there 1.6 ITB's?

  4. #4
    2,000 rpm - light wheelspin, no bog here! DarylSibcy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Infedora View Post
    Certainly not sensible. I'm beginning to think its time to revisit the UK with a big suitcase. Seems there is more for me to find there. Wonder if anyone is selling there 1.6 ITB's?
    If you do either hook up with BlinkMotorsport, or Skuzzle Motorsprt, they can help with anything Miata related
    You want a good car. I want a good miata.

  5. #5
    Ninja Messiah kung fu jesus's Avatar
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    256 cams are pretty mild. What is the lift?

  6. #6
    2,000 rpm - light wheelspin, no bog here! Infedora's Avatar
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    Around 8.6mm or more. This would be installed in a freshly rebuilt head with .030 to .040 skim.

  7. #7
    2,000 rpm - light wheelspin, no bog here! DarylSibcy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kung fu jesus View Post
    256 cams are pretty mild. What is the lift?
    I’ve always thought 256 was pretty hot I could be wrong though, KFJ knows a lot more than I do so I’d listen to him

    I know of people who have run 264/264 10mm Cams, but had to spend a lot of time and money getting the tune right for a good idle.

    The highest I’ve seen reliably was an RS Aizawa 1.8. 272/264, really good overlap and a solid idle, very driveable from the few videos of seen - my speculations are purely from the sound on a YouTube video though, don’t see it as credible advice I’m an amateur at the end of the day

    I imagine that RS Aizawa spent hours upon hours getting their tune spot on to be that reliable though. Their 1.8 was good for about 200hp, I think at the crank..
    You want a good car. I want a good miata.

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    Ninja Messiah kung fu jesus's Avatar
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    Most people who run cams won’t divulge specs, there is a LOT of tuning mechanically and electronically to get them dialed in.

    RoT, the stock ECU can handle 256 duration, but you may need an AFPR. 264 is streetable with a stand-alone ECU and tuning. 272+ is where things get ‘unstreetable’ in the common meaning.

    Lift is where you need to be careful. I don’t recall the binding max of the stock springs, but 8-8.2mm rings a bell. Beyond that you need different springs to handle additional lift.

    Springs are also tricky, too stiff and you rob power, too light and you float the valves. All this info is out there on internet and in the tech/service manuals.

    There were people using springs from other cars, but I won’t tell you which ones because I don’t know your application.

    Adjustable cam gears are also a must and you should expect to spend a number of hours fine tuning spark and fuel on top of overlap. Cams are not exactly a bolt-on-and-go addition.

  9. #9
    5,000 rpm - there be torque here! Greasemonkey2000's Avatar
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    While the stock ecu can handle said cams it is important to take note of this:

    **If high flow intake and exhaust are both used with any of the cams on this page, the OEM ECU will not provide enough fuel potentially leading a a dangerously lean condition (boom!). Additional power gains will be found with a fully programmable ECU regardless of what other parts are fitted to the engine.
    Per SuperMiata: https://supermiata.com/Tomei-miata-cam.aspx

    Steven aka KFJ more or less stated this, just a little differently.
    '01 NB2 aka MisF1re: http://mazdaroadster.net/showthread....218#post207218
    '97 M aka Warbird, gone but not forgotten: http://mazdaroadster.net/showthread....B&goto=newpost
    Instagram: @greasemonkey2000

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    2,000 rpm - light wheelspin, no bog here! Infedora's Avatar
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    I'll be running standalone soon, if only to maximize what I have and begin the tuning learning process. Definitely want to stay away from the boom condition, but of course if that happens,yeah, 1.8 swap. My 1.6 is a test bed for me to learn on, and frankly I like the engine. It's like me, underpowered, but giving it all I got.

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    Ninja Messiah kung fu jesus's Avatar
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    Gotta say, for the price of doing cams correctly on a B6, you can swap a bp4 or bp5 and make the same or more power with room to make more, and easier.

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    2,000 rpm - light wheelspin, no bog here! Infedora's Avatar
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  13. #13
    2,000 rpm - light wheelspin, no bog here! DarylSibcy's Avatar
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    Currently consulting a few experts on the matter on Cam specs, namely HarryB

    You could look at different duration cams for intake and exhaust, as long as the lift is the same you shouldn't have any issues.

    As I say, RS Aiwaza run 272/264 in/ex
    You want a good car. I want a good miata.

  14. #14
    Ninja Messiah kung fu jesus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Infedora View Post
    For those considering cams, here's a fair breakdown:

    b6ze cam project:
    Cams...500-1000
    Cam gears... 200
    Valve spring kit...400
    Head work (shave+tank)...50-200
    HG+seals...150
    ECU dyno tuning...300-750
    Injectors...100-300
    Wideband O2...$200-300
    ECU...800-1000
    $2700-4200

    (optional)
    Valve seats + guides ...200-400
    Valves...160-350
    Studs...100

    $460-750

    BP4W/BP5D (good numbers, average mileage)

    Engine...1000-1300/800-1200
    clutch+flywheel...500-700
    Swap kit...150-400

    $1650-2400/1450-2200


    (optional)
    LSD conversion...600-900
    VVT tuner...210
    WBO2...200-300
    ECU...800-1000
    Dyno tuning...150-500

  15. #15
    2,000 rpm - light wheelspin, no bog here! Infedora's Avatar
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    Good points KFJ, I'm going to save the money for a full bolt on JDM ground effects and custom bumper package. That should significantly reduce drag and give me better acceleration at a much better price

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